Re: [Videolib] VHS to DVD for classroom use?

From: Benjamin Crossley-Marra <ben@zeitgeistfilms.com>
Date: Mon Nov 02 2009 - 15:17:05 PST

Wow Guys.

I'm sorry but it's just not the job of a librarian to preserve "cultural
records." If you wanted to do that you should have gone into museum
archiving.

I know it sucks when things go out of print or lose their distribution
contracts but you just have to wait until the rights have been sorted out.

You're 100% wrong that its not stealing just because you can't buy it. The
rights always revert back to someone or some production company and those
people have every right to enter in to a new distribution deal or none at
all.

Benjamin Crossley-Marra
Director of Non-Theatrical Distribution
Zeitgeist Films Ltd.
247 Centre St, 2nd fl
New York, NY 10013
P: (212) 274-1989
C: (607) 765-7511
F: (212) 274-1644
http://www.zeitgeistfilms.com

On 11/2/09 6:02 PM, "ghandman@library.berkeley.edu"
<ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Jessica...I shall go absolutely mad.

It's not stealing if you CAN'T BUY THE
> GODDAMN THING ANYMORE. Show me
where I can buy a replacement at fair market
> and I'll do it. If you
can't, I'm gonna burn a replacement and use it. The
> alternative is
letting useful materials crumble.

I am not talking about
> upgrades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not talking about
convenience. I am talking
> about preserving out-of-distribution works at
physical risk of
> disintegration.

Gary

> sorry Gary you are not "preserving" anything you
> are stealing
> So if any film a professor wants to use has not yet been
> released on DVD,
> just copy it yourself ? That does seem to be what you and
> Michael are
> saying.
> That part of copyright was in fact put in for
> PRESERVATION not to give a
> free upgrade or format transfer. It was meant to
> make sure rare materials
> did not become totally unavailable
> and that is
> completely different. If you think making DVD copies of films
> you bought on
> VHS because a company has not been able to invest the
> THOUSANDS of THOUSANDS
> of dollars ( or tens of thousands depending on some
> films) to do it is not
> infringing on a market, I can't imagine how you
> expect independent companies
> in particular to survive. What would be the
> point of even making DVDs if
> professors and libraries just made their own
> copies under some non existent
> theory of "fair use" means I get to make
> free
> copies. Are you and Michael
> seriously arguing that hey just make copies
> and
> don't worry cause no one
> is getting hurt here. I would like to know. Nice
> that you choose to ignore
> section 108 because you find it "nonsensical"
> but at least don't pretend
> what you do is legal or ethical. Let me guess
> you promise to buy a DVD IF
> the company ever can afford to put it out and
> IF you decide
> the price is
> reasonable. Don't be surprised when there are no indie films
> coming out and
> the studios don't bother to release anything that is more
> than 2 years old.
> Why should they bother if you already made your own copy
> ?
>
> Yep I am
> nasty tonight because like I have said before I used to have this
> silly idea
> that librarians were supposed to PROTECT filmmakers and artists
> not abet
> those stealing their work.
>
>
>
> Greetings from Brooklyn
>
> On Mon, Nov 2,
> 2009 at 3:40 PM, <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> OK...gonna go out
> on a limb here.
>>
>> The "in-house" provision of 108 is so unspeakably stupid
> and nonsensical
>> that I've chosen to largely ignore it: why in the world
> would one make
>> a
>> copy of a decomposing work only to have to circulate
> the original for
>> classroom use (and not the more robust copy). Stupid. I
> urge similar
>> civil disobedience by my colleagues... We're not talking
> about
>> infringing
>> on ANYONE'S rights or ANYONE's market: We're talking
> about preserving
>> the
>> cultural record.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> > Making VHS
> to DVD copies is illegal period. The ONLY exemption IS"
>> > archival"
>> >
> and that is in section 108. In that case IF the copy were essentially
>> >
> decomposing you could make a digital copy but THAT copy can NOT leave
>>
> the
>> > library. FACE TO FACE exemption does allow you to use whole works in
> a
>> > class
>> > but those works must be LEGAL copies and transfer is not a
> legal copy.
>> >
>> > FYI the SCMS "best use" was prepared by a bunch of
> academics and has
>> no
>> > legal standing. It says for instance you can take
> a copy of a film
>> your
>> > cousin taped of Z channel 25 years ago and use
> that ( I am
>> exaggerating
>> > for
>> > effect but that is what there
> "interpretation" permits). Yes I know
>> there
>> > is
>> > no legal ruling
> but a little common sense with that document would
>> help.
>> > Again by
> their interpretation you really would not have to buy
>> anything ,
>> > just
> tape it off TV and use that.
>> >
>> > Snarky mood today but go ahead and
> bitch I have to go to Brooklyn and
>> > won't
>> > be on line
>> >
>> > On
> Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Elizabeth Kielley
>> >
> <ekielley@messiah.edu>wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am in discussion with a faculty
> member who is certain that for
>> >> face-to-face teaching, he can make a DVD
> copy of a VHS as long as it
>> was
>> >> only used for teaching. I am
> disagreeing due to my understanding we
>> >> can't
>> >> make a copy, even for
> preservation. Please let me know. I know this
>> >> has
>> >> been discussed
> before but I am attaching his rationale:
>> >>
>> >> "Currently, educators in
> the face-to-face teaching context enjoy more
>> >> latitude and face fewer
> restrictions under the face-to-face exception
>> >> than
>> >> do their
> counterparts in the distance education context under the
>> online
>> >>
> distance education exception. For example, while educators in the
>> online
>>
> >> distance education context may only use ³reasonable and limited
>> >>
> portions² of
>> >> an audiovisual work, educators in the face-to-face context
> face no
>> such
>> >> limitation.
>> >> *Principle IV Online Distance
> Education*
>> >> =========================================
>> >> The
> restrictions on transferring media from analog to digital apply
>> >>
> explicitly to online courses, but it's not clear if they apply in
>> >>
> face-to-face teaching . That's why I'm pretty sure that we can make
>> >>
> DVDs
>> >> from VHS tapes for classroom use (perhaps these could not be
> checked
>> out
>> >> by
>> >> students for personal viewing unless they were
> in the class). Let me
>> >> know
>> >> what you think!"
>> >>
>> >> AND
>>
> >>
>> >>
>> >> "The critical distinction here is "for classroom
> face-to-face
>> teaching",
>> >> not just for preservation purposes. The
> reason I included the second
>> >> quote
>> >> from the SCMS document is
> because it states that while online
>> >> instructors
>> >> are limited to
> "³reasonable and limited portions² of an audiovisual
>> >> work,
>> >>
> educators in the face-to-face context face no such limitation." So
>> >>
> copying
>> >> of entire works for specific employ in face-to-face teaching
> would
>> not
>> >> be
>> >> restricted as long as they were ONLY USED in that
> context.
>> >>
>> >> That was my thinking from what the SCMS states. Doe this
> make sense
>> to
>> >> you?"
>> >>
>> >> So please let me know if I'm
> wrong.
>> >>
>> >> Liz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Liz Kielley
>> >>
> ekielley@messiah.edu
>> >> Librarian/Technical Services Coordinator
>> >>
> Messiah College
>> >> Grantham, PA 17027
>> >> 717-691-6006 x3850
>> >>
> 717-691-6042 (FAX)
>> >>
>> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and
> lively discussion of
>> >> issues
>> >> relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic
>> >> control,
>> >> preservation, and use of
> current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries
>> >> and
>> >> related
> institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>> >> effective
>> >>
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication
>>
> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>> >>
> distributors.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and
> lively discussion of
>> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>
> acquisition,bibliographic
>> > control, preservation, and use of current and
> evolving video formats
>> in
>> > libraries and related institutions. It is
> hoped that the list will
>> serve
>> > as an effective working tool for video
> librarians, as well as a
>> channel
>> of
>> > communication between
> libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> > producers and
> distributors.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources
> Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>>
>> 510-643-8566
>>
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>
>> "I have
> always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>> --Francois
> Truffaut
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
> discussion of
>> issues
>> relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic
>> control,
>> preservation, and use of current and
> evolving video formats in libraries
>> and
>> related institutions. It is
> hoped that the list will serve as an
>> effective
>> working tool for video
> librarians, as well as a channel of communication
>> between
> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>
> distributors.
>>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
> discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and
> evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped
> that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians,
> as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational
> institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>

Gary
> Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC
> Berkeley

510-643-8566
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.e
> du/MRC

"I have always preferred the reflection of life to life
> itself."
--Francois Truffaut

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and
> lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and
> evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that
> the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well
> as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> video producers and distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Mon Nov 2 15:17:37 2009

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