Re: [Videolib] VHS to DVD for classroom use?

From: Jessica Rosner <maddux2014@gmail.com>
Date: Mon Nov 02 2009 - 14:55:54 PST

sorry Gary you are not "preserving" anything you are stealing
So if any film a professor wants to use has not yet been released on DVD,
just copy it yourself ? That does seem to be what you and Michael are
saying.
That part of copyright was in fact put in for PRESERVATION not to give a
free upgrade or format transfer. It was meant to make sure rare materials
did not become totally unavailable
and that is completely different. If you think making DVD copies of films
you bought on VHS because a company has not been able to invest the
THOUSANDS of THOUSANDS of dollars ( or tens of thousands depending on some
films) to do it is not infringing on a market, I can't imagine how you
expect independent companies in particular to survive. What would be the
point of even making DVDs if professors and libraries just made their own
copies under some non existent theory of "fair use" means I get to make free
copies. Are you and Michael seriously arguing that hey just make copies and
don't worry cause no one is getting hurt here. I would like to know. Nice
that you choose to ignore section 108 because you find it "nonsensical"
 but at least don't pretend what you do is legal or ethical. Let me guess
you promise to buy a DVD IF the company ever can afford to put it out and
 IF you decide
the price is reasonable. Don't be surprised when there are no indie films
coming out and the studios don't bother to release anything that is more
than 2 years old. Why should they bother if you already made your own copy ?

Yep I am nasty tonight because like I have said before I used to have this
silly idea that librarians were supposed to PROTECT filmmakers and artists
not abet those stealing their work.

Greetings from Brooklyn

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:40 PM, <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> OK...gonna go out on a limb here.
>
> The "in-house" provision of 108 is so unspeakably stupid and nonsensical
> that I've chosen to largely ignore it: why in the world would one make a
> copy of a decomposing work only to have to circulate the original for
> classroom use (and not the more robust copy). Stupid. I urge similar
> civil disobedience by my colleagues... We're not talking about infringing
> on ANYONE'S rights or ANYONE's market: We're talking about preserving the
> cultural record.
>
> Gary
>
>
> > Making VHS to DVD copies is illegal period. The ONLY exemption IS"
> > archival"
> > and that is in section 108. In that case IF the copy were essentially
> > decomposing you could make a digital copy but THAT copy can NOT leave the
> > library. FACE TO FACE exemption does allow you to use whole works in a
> > class
> > but those works must be LEGAL copies and transfer is not a legal copy.
> >
> > FYI the SCMS "best use" was prepared by a bunch of academics and has no
> > legal standing. It says for instance you can take a copy of a film your
> > cousin taped of Z channel 25 years ago and use that ( I am exaggerating
> > for
> > effect but that is what there "interpretation" permits). Yes I know there
> > is
> > no legal ruling but a little common sense with that document would help.
> > Again by their interpretation you really would not have to buy anything ,
> > just tape it off TV and use that.
> >
> > Snarky mood today but go ahead and bitch I have to go to Brooklyn and
> > won't
> > be on line
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Elizabeth Kielley
> > <ekielley@messiah.edu>wrote:
> >
> >> I am in discussion with a faculty member who is certain that for
> >> face-to-face teaching, he can make a DVD copy of a VHS as long as it was
> >> only used for teaching. I am disagreeing due to my understanding we
> >> can't
> >> make a copy, even for preservation. Please let me know. I know this
> >> has
> >> been discussed before but I am attaching his rationale:
> >>
> >> "Currently, educators in the face-to-face teaching context enjoy more
> >> latitude and face fewer restrictions under the face-to-face exception
> >> than
> >> do their counterparts in the distance education context under the online
> >> distance education exception. For example, while educators in the online
> >> distance education context may only use “reasonable and limited
> >> portions” of
> >> an audiovisual work, educators in the face-to-face context face no such
> >> limitation.
> >> *Principle IV Online Distance Education*
> >> =========================================
> >> The restrictions on transferring media from analog to digital apply
> >> explicitly to online courses, but it's not clear if they apply in
> >> face-to-face teaching . That's why I'm pretty sure that we can make
> >> DVDs
> >> from VHS tapes for classroom use (perhaps these could not be checked out
> >> by
> >> students for personal viewing unless they were in the class). Let me
> >> know
> >> what you think!"
> >>
> >> AND
> >>
> >>
> >> "The critical distinction here is "for classroom face-to-face teaching",
> >> not just for preservation purposes. The reason I included the second
> >> quote
> >> from the SCMS document is because it states that while online
> >> instructors
> >> are limited to "“reasonable and limited portions” of an audiovisual
> >> work,
> >> educators in the face-to-face context face no such limitation." So
> >> copying
> >> of entire works for specific employ in face-to-face teaching would not
> >> be
> >> restricted as long as they were ONLY USED in that context.
> >>
> >> That was my thinking from what the SCMS states. Doe this make sense to
> >> you?"
> >>
> >> So please let me know if I'm wrong.
> >>
> >> Liz
> >>
> >>
> >> Liz Kielley
> >> ekielley@messiah.edu
> >> Librarian/Technical Services Coordinator
> >> Messiah College
> >> Grantham, PA 17027
> >> 717-691-6006 x3850
> >> 717-691-6042 (FAX)
> >>
> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >> issues
> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> >> control,
> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
> >> and
> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> >> effective
> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> >> distributors.
> >>
> >>
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of
> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> > producers and distributors.
> >
>
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
>
> 510-643-8566
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
> --Francois Truffaut
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Mon Nov 2 14:56:34 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Apr 07 2010 - 15:16:25 PDT