Re: [Videolib] videolib Digest, Vol 21, Issue 63

From: Lawrence Daressa <LD@newsreel.org>
Date: Fri Aug 21 2009 - 14:39:43 PDT

Dear Lorraine,

I hope you were joking when you said you let faculty "donate" home video
copies to your collection - at least insofar as Newsreel titles are
involved. Licensing (purchasing) a home DVD from us entails a
contractually binding agreement not to use it in any institutional
setting. This is clearly stated at every "point of sale" for a Newsreel
home DVD. This would therefore exclude not only public performances but
circulation as part of a library's DVD collection. Whether it also
trumps the "face to facing" exemption is something that we don't have
neither the resources or inclination to litigate.

We, of course, recognize that Newsreel home DVDs are regularly used in
institutions, copied, added to permanent collections and streamed. As a
consequence, Newsreel does not make its most recent or most frequently
used titles available at anything but institutional prices. We are
attempting to accommodate the few, legitimate home video users out there
by making select titles available for rental (not downloading) from
Amazon for $2.99 per rental. This should also facilitate previewing
titles by faculty and video librarians.

We have also made our entire (rapidly aging) Library of African Cinema
collection available to institutions and individuals for $24.95 per DVD;
these sales (in common with all our institutional sales) include PPR.
The only purchasers of these rather esoteric titles at the "home" DVD
price have, however, been institutions, confirming our suspicion that,
for most of our releases, there is only an institutional market.

It might further clarify this discussion to note that our margin on home
DVD sales (that is our net minus the cost of the DVD, packaging and
royalties but excluding salaries, overheads, promotional expenses, etc)
is only 4% of our unit margin for an institutional DVD. In our
experience, the unit volume of home DVD sales has not been 25 times
their institutional sales. At the time DVDs were introduced, several
distributors, encouraged by the usual fatuous foundations and new
technology gurus, assumed that prices for educational video were price
elastic; unhappily, most went bankrupt long ago.

Thanks.

Larry

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:04 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: videolib Digest, Vol 21, Issue 63

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Home use prices vs. PPR prices (Tatar, Becky)
   2. Re: Home use prices vs. PPR prices & Help on Film Search
      (lorraine wochna)
   3. Re: Home use prices vs. PPR prices (Jonathan Miller)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:28:45 -0500
From: "Tatar, Becky" <bltata@aurora.lib.il.us>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices
To: <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID:
        
<6D8BEE91433474478D294A8867FFDC6E02D4031C@WMAIN3.aurorapubliclibrary.org
>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think we had this discussion a few years ago, and a vendor offered his
product at home use prices. I don't know how many librarians took him
up on it.
 
 

Becky Tatar

Periodicals/Audiovisuals

Aurora Public Library

1 E. Benton Street

Aurora, IL 60505

Phone: 630-264-4100

FAX: 630-896-3209

bltata@aurora.lib.il.us

www.aurora.lib.il.us

 

        

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:42:40 -0400
From: lorraine wochna <wochna@ohio.edu>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices & Help on Film
        Search
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Message-ID: <44F9C8F4132F24FE5F0089FE@2REF_WOCHNA_01.LIB.AD.OHIOU.EDU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Alex,

I know what you mean. There are films out there that have home use
pricing/institutional pricing that I know will get home use, and it does
irk me at times that I have to pay institution price. Sometimes I have
a faculty ask (rarely) "what if I buy this and donate it to the
collection".
Hey, go ahead, right? (they usually do not).

Here how I am solving it: I am a one woman WE HAVE FILMS WITH PPR THAT
YOU CAN USE ON CAMPUS, and in CLASSES!!!! I'm working on a LibGuide for
the express purchase of touting our PPR collection. Lots of students
groups could you these films for events (without charge, of course).
So, I just decided to educate myself, my fellow librarians, and as many
folks as I can about what it means to have the PPR, and what are the
titles we have, how they can be used in a variety of subject area too.
My 2 cents.

EVERYONE: I'm looking for a copy of Godard's Numero Deux. Tried all
the usual suspects short of going to France. Any other ideas? (DVA,
Facets, Amazon, Alibris, original distributors). Thanks

lorraine
Ohio U

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:57:01 -0400
From: "Jonathan Miller" <jmiller@icarusfilms.com>
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices
To: <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <00c101ca2291$2b89bd90$f864a8c0@www.frif.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Myles,
 
You have a good memory. I think i have the emails from that experiment
and the sales figures somewhere - over the weekend I will try and
remember ot look for the information and post it again for us all to
ponder.
 
In the meantime i'd be game to give it another go, if people are
interested?
We could compare the results to the first time and see if the outcome is
any different?
 
Best,
 
Jonathan
 
 

Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA

tel 1.718.488.8900
fax 1.718.488.8642
www.IcarusFilms.com
jmiller@IcarusFilms.com

 

  _____

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jaeschke,
Myles
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:34 PM
To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices

A few years back Jon over at Icarus Films actually made an offer to this
listserv on pricing. If I recall correctly he offered 10 or so
Mid-Eastern studies titles at "name your price" as an experiment. I
took him up on the offer but I think very few libraries did which
surprised me. Perhaps Jon can share more of this experiment with the
group as it happened sometime ago. Basically the lesson learned was for
items w/ a very specific and limited purchasing audience, films needed
to priced to recover costs at the very minimum. Many particular titles
(in the educational realm) are only going to sell 300-500 (or less)
copies weather they are priced at $50 or $350 a sad but true fact. That
said I certainly like to stretch my dollar as far as possible so $99+
titles better have a broad audience when I am selecting (especially for
a public library). I won't touch tiered pricing in this conversation as
this is a sore subject among many of us vendors and selectors alike.

 

Jon are you reading?

 

Best,
Myles Jaeschke

 

Tulsa City-County Library System

Media Collections

 

  _____

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Moshiri,
Farhad
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:41 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices

 

Dear Jessica,

 

You're right that it depends on the product. "Lesbian basket weaving
cooperative in Bolivia" is an extreem example, and as you say, maybe a
joke.
But I'm thinking of more mainstreem subjects and companies such as First
Run who are offering their documentaries with home use pricing. I will
be surprised if these DVDs do not sell more than 300 to 400 copies.
That's why I asked if there is any statistics or studies done to see for
example how many copies of First Run documentaries have been purchased
by libraries. Any time I check OCLC WorldCat, I notice that the number
of expensive DVDs that are owned by libraries is very low, maybe 15 to
20. But for DVDs with home use pricing the number of libraries owning
them are much higher naturally.

 

Farhad

  _____

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
[maddux2014@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:32 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Home use prices vs. PPR prices

I think it depends on the product. The sad fact is that most of the
titles that come with high end pricing simply have no 'home use' or
retail market.
In most cases the PPR rights are largely meant as an "extra" that you
probably don't need. I sometimes evilly joke about the documentary about
a lesbian basket weaving co-operative in Bolivia as the type of film
sold for the educational market. It is going to have a VERY small market
thus the distributor or filmmaker

is going to charge $250 on up a pop or the film is never going to get
distributed at all. If the distributor can sell 20-40 copies at that
level of price then they can afford to make these kinds of films
available. I am sure the same distributor or filmmaker would LOVE to
sell the titles at $25( without the PPR which you probably didn't want
anyway ) IF they could sell 250 to 450 copies ( a little more than the
price difference given all the extra work) but they really can't.

I think this issue has been discussed over the years and it would be
great if librarians and distributors could come up with a solution but
short of 300 libraries

pre-ordering a title to keep the price down I don't really see it.

 

Jessica Rosner

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Moshiri, Farhad <moshiri@uiwtx.edu>
wrote:

Dear Collective mind,

 

Has there been any studies done to find if a video publisher makes more
money if it offers its videos with home use pricing in contrast to
limiting it to PPR pricing? The reason I'm asking this question is that
I'm sure there are other institutions like my university that do not
show its videos to the public and does not need PPR for the videos in
its collection. We check out our videos only for individual use at home
or for use in face-to-face classroom use. Since we have a very limited
budget for AV materials, we are forced to purchase cheaper videos. We
miss many good documentaries due to their expensive pricing. But
companies such as First Run and PBS are offering home use pricing for
their documentaries that we use a lot. I'm just guessing that other
publishers could make more money and offset the high cost of producing
documentaries if they sell more copies of their products with home use
pricing. I highly appreciate your inputs.

 

Farhad Moshiri

University of the Incarnate Word

San Antonio, TX

 

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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.

 

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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Fri Aug 21 14:49:33 2009

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