Re: [Videolib] Newsreel news

From: <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed Jul 29 2009 - 12:51:27 PDT

Kathleen...

You get a kiss on both cheeks and I pin the coveted Croix de Media on your
chest!

There's something very insidious happening here, I think. In the rush to
fill the short term and often ephemeral needs of specific curricula, to
offer the convenience of online access, and to mitigate the steep costs of
collection development and maintenance, we're walking a realllly dangerous
line. Here are my concerns:

1. Availability of cheap, online content will dictate what's used in the
classroom. Faculty aren't exempt from laziness (and stupidity)...I've
seen the reach for low-hanging fruit happen many, many times. It's the
curriculum that should dictate content used--NOT the other way around

2. As I've lamented in earlier posts: while I think the Hollywood Machine
will ultimately build its own online field of dreams, I'm not sanguine at
all about the scope and depth of this online universe. Optimist will say
that the relative cost-effectiveness of delivering content on-demand will
expand the number of feature films available (why, just look at the
on-demand model for the Warner Archives!)--I'm not optimistic at all that
we'll see much more than blockbusters and mainstream "classics" hit the
online shelves. More horrifying: if physical media go away, what's gonna
happen to the non-fiction world--particularly the independents, the odd
and one-offs, the self-distributors...the guys without the wherewithal to
maintain server farms or to afford outsourcing distribution.

3. What happens (as you've pointed out) to the historical record? The
"just-in-case" collection that have become the stock and trade of academic
libraries? Distributors have never been in the business of preserving the
cultural record; that's our job. If there's nothing to preserve for the
long haul...god help us all.

4. What happens when a faculty person wants to screen a title in class?
Please! Classroom infrastructure in most academic institutions that I know
is very often still in a pretty sorry state. Even if its not--how many
faculty are willing (or able) to crap shoot with the chance of network
connections crashing and burning, the need to install the correct players
on laptops, the correct cables being at hand... Hell, they're still
clamoring for VHS here...you can cue it much more easily than DVD (and
just try scrubbing thru typical online streams to find a clip...)

I think it is entirely possible and likely that VOD use can and will
happen in parallel with library collections on campus... I see nothing
wrong or harmful with making popular titles available for individual
student downloads...For large classes or for classes that are using
materials that fall outside of the collection scope of the library, good
and well (although I would NEVER support the library's picking up the tab
for the latter).

On the other hand...VOD alone will NEVER be sufficient to meet the broad
and long-term academic needs of most campuses.

gary handman

> I'm glad that at Hofstra you've made that decision, but I don't think it's
> just about "passing along the cost to the students"
>
> I think this is something that goes directly to the core of what we want
> to
> do as educational institutions: collect information and provide access to
> it
> for preservation and research. When academic institutions can no longer
> afford to do this, or aren't able to collect because of restrictions based
> on
> born-digital content, it hurts our collection and impedes access to the
> historical record of knowledge and culture that we're trying to maintain.
>
> Never before (that I can think of) has a format change impeded the mission
> of
> libraries in this way: you could always just buy LPs or CDs or cassettes
> or
> the flavor du jour. Now licensing restrictions are making it almost
> impossible to grow our collections with content that isn't available on
> *any*
> carrier. (This is particularly a problem with some independent film makers
> who are now putting documentaries online in places like youtube and
> musicians
> who are releasing digital-only through their labels or web sites).
>
> Something's gotta give here - you can't honestly think that every student
> in
> a class is going to pay that $2.99 to view that documentary. Either they
> won't do the work (and faculty will change what they assign, and there
> better
> be a whole lot of love to keep these projects going), or they will be
> sitting
> in the library study rooms or someone's dorm huddled around a laptop -
> it's a
> win for the students - only $2.99! and the library's collection still
> suffers.
>
> I'm not claiming to have any answers, but I think it's more than just a
> question of budgets and who's paying for what.
>
> Kathleen DeLaurenti
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah McCleskey
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:44 AM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: [Videolib] Newsreel news
>
> I'm very glad Newsreel is going to experiment with this. It certainly
> wouldn't keep me from making an institutional purchase of a title from
> Newsreel. To me, this is a win-win solution. We in the library have made
> an
> institutional decision that we cannot pay for streaming rights to
> individual
> titles that are only available to a limited number of students enrolled in
> one course for one semester. It's just not what we do. We license stuff
> that is generally accessible to our entire constituency. And we will
> continue to purchase individual titles for the collection whether or not
> streaming rights are available.
>
> I'm all for streaming video, and using video especially in the CMS
> environment, because it makes everyone's life easier (especially in the
> many
> non-"film" classes that need to use video). I'm also all for passing that
> cost along to the students; it's a cost of education, and *super cheap* at
> $2.99 compared to what they pay for textbooks, tuition, blah blah blah.
>
> Sarah @ Hofstra
>
>
>
>
>>>> "Lawrence Daressa" <LD@newsreel.org> 07/29/09 1:56 PM >>>
> Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" DVDs
>
> With regard to the availability of titles on Amazon, California Newsreel
> will experiment with offering ten titles for digital rental and/or sale
> starting September 1 on Amazon. Some instructors with depleted
> acquisition budgets have requested that we make our films directly
> available to students for a $2.99 rental. We are eager to see how
> useful this option proves and whether it has a long-term impact on
> institutional DVD sales and streaming licenses. It is possible that for
> some titles individual student rental could eventually generate more
> revenue for producers than institutional sales. Since both options are
> available, Newsreel is leaving it up to the instructor to determine the
> ethical implications of passing on these costs.
>
> With regard to the licensing of home use DVDs, Newsreel endeavours to
> make as transparent as possible any contractual restrictions and DRM
> which may apply to any DVD at our point-of-sale. Unfortunately, we can't
> insure that such notices appear at points-of-sale outside our control
> but we can require these sellers to refund the cost of any DVD sold to a
> university or individual without making the terms and conditions of use
> explicit nor would those terms and conditions be in any way binding.
>
> Larry Daressa.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> videolib-request@lists.berkeley.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. postcards - a plea for sanity (Vicki Nesting)
> 2. Re: postcards - a plea for sanity (Jesse Epstein)
> 3. Re: what to do about extra digital discs? (John Streepy)
> 4. Re: classroom use of "home and community viewing" dvd
> (Dennis Doros)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Vicki Nesting <vnestin@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
> To: videolib <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
> Message-ID: <438708.19421.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to make a
> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for catalogs.
>
> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video distributors
> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to file
> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure out
> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New Video
> because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go into a binder.
> They have dates on them so I can figure out what's current.
>
> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the piles
> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings are. So
> if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't appear on a
> "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose paper
> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>
> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
> * A positive review in Video Librarian
> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
> Librarian, Booklist)
> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles (and a
> binder to put them in!)
>
> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to send me
> pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
> ordering.
>
> Speaking for myself alone,
> Vicki
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Vicki Nesting
> Assistant Director
> St. Charles Parish Library
> Luling, Louisiana
> vnestin@bellsouth.net
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:43:12 -0400
> From: Jesse Epstein <epstein.jesse@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] postcards - a plea for sanity
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Message-ID:
> <15d50eeb0907290943r523f9fc1je9a6427fed5150c6@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> As a filmmaker with New Day Films - getting ready to navigate
> distribution for the fall -- I want to thank you for this info!!!!
> Jesse
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Vicki Nesting
> <vnestin@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>>
>> I have been cleaning my catalog shelves this week and want to make a
>> plea to our video distributor friends on this list: don't rely on
>> postcards or other loose paper mailings as a substitute for catalogs.
>>
>> I get many, many, many postcard announcements from video distributors
>> about their latest offerings. I throw all the mail I receive about
>> video products on a shelf. I do the same with the audio
>> catalogs/mailings I receive. The catalogs are relatively easy to file
>
>> (although everyone needs to put dates on the front so I can figure out
>
>> which is the most current) but the postcards and loose paper?
>> Impossible. On the other hand, I love the mailings I get from New
>> Video because they are 8-1/2" x 11" and are hole-punched to go into a
>> binder. They have dates on them so I can figure out what's current.
>>
>> When I go to order, I don't have the patience to dig through the piles
>
>> of postcards and loose paper to see what your latest offerings are.
>> So if they haven't been reviewed in Video Librarian, didn't appear on
>> a "best" list, and all you sent me was a postcard or other loose paper
>
>> mailing, chances are that I'm going to miss it.
>>
>> What is most useful to me when I'm ordering?
>> * A positive review in Video Librarian
>> * Appearance on a year-end "best" list (Notable Videos, Video
>> Librarian,
>> Booklist)
>> * Something I had a chance to preview at National Media Market
>> * Catalog or 8-1/2" x 11" hole punched cut sheets for new titles (and
>
>> a binder to put them in!)
>>
>> And by the way, email is useful to let me know about sales or to send
>> me pricing, but it's not the place I look when I sit down to do my
> ordering.
>>
>> Speaking for myself alone,
>> Vicki
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Vicki Nesting
>> Assistant Director
>> St. Charles Parish Library
>> Luling, Louisiana
>> vnestin@bellsouth.net
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jesse Epstein
> Educational Films on Body Image
> http://www.JesseDocs.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:38:58 -0700
> From: John Streepy <John.Streepy@cwu.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] what to do about extra digital discs?
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Message-ID: <4A7018BD.1F8F.0042.1@gwmail.cwu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi all,
> would it be illegal to load the digital copy onto a computer at the
> library for use in house, and still check out the physical copy. This
> is a way of at least getting something of value out of what you perceive
> as an additional cost. Just curious.
> jhs
>
>
> John H. Streepy
> Media Services Supervisor
> Library-Media Circulation
> James E. Brooks Library
> Central Washington University
> 400 East University Way
> Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>
> (509) 963-2861
> http://www.lib.cwu.edu/media
>
> "Hand to hand combat just goes with the territory.
> All part of being a librarian" -- James Turner "Rex Libris"
>
> Transitus profusum est nocens!
>
>
>
>
>>>> Danielle Phillips <danilphillips@gmail.com> 7/29/2009 8:41 AM >>>
> We use Baker and Taylor. This is mostly an issue with Blu-rays, but
> occasionally a DVD comes like this. I think you're right Winona. We
> can't very well prove that we're paying extra for this, even though I'm
> pretty sure we are. I think we'll probably go with just discarding it.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Winona Patterson
> <wpatters@harpercollege.edu>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> We haven?t discussed anything with our vendors specifically regarding
> being charged (or ?not charged?) for the digital copy of the movie. Like
> you said, it feels like we?re being charged for it, but is there really
> a way to prove it? And if we raise a fuss, I?m afraid something might
> happen along the lines of what Fox was trying to do earlier this year
> with forcing libraries to purchase only the no-frills versions of
> popular DVDs (which they quickly recanted).
>
>
>
>
> As for what we do in-house once we receive the DVD with digital copy *
> we?re doing what Meghann and the University of Delaware are doing. Also,
> if a patron is savvy enough to know about the digital copies in the
> first place, they should also be savvy enough to know that the download
> is a one-time thing.
>
>
>
>
> Winona Patterson
>
> A/V Cataloger
> LRC Tech Services, Harper College
> 1200 W. Algonquin Rd., Palatine, IL 60067
> Direct Line 847-925-6770
>
>
> wpatters@harpercollege.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Danielle Phillips
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:48:56 -0400
> From: Dennis Doros <milefilms@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community viewing"
> dvd
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Message-ID:
> <2ad8b9eb0907290948t51fd97a3sfa48eecb497c61aa@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Michael,
> Oh, wow, Michael. Absolutely agree about the techno end, but as to
> content,
> as Bugs Bunny would say, "He don't know me too well, do he?" Amy and I
> release films because we fall in love with them and have to share them.
> For
> us (and a lot of distributors are just like us), trying to acquire a
> movie
> because it will make money is like a hitter going up to the plate and
> trying
> to hit a home run. It can happen, but it usually decreases your chances.
> And
> it's a heck of a lot less fun if you're just in it for the bucks.
>
> Dennis
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Brewer, Michael <
> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>>
>>
>> I do think rights holders having more information on what is really
>> used/needed by various communities would help to spur them to create
> new
>> products or business models that could serve both groups. In the case
> of
>> educational institutions using fair use, or even 110 or 108, this
>> information usually does not get to them, so they can?t make an
> informed
>> decision about whether or not to rerelease something, to develop a
> streaming
>> model, or rates for licensing, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> mb
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Brewer
>>
>> Team Leader for Undergraduate Services
>>
>> University of Arizona Library
>>
>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:48 PM
>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community
> viewing"
>> dvd
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> Thanks for taking the correction so kindly. We disagree, but to be
> honest,
>> what I'd really love is that there's a national fund, just like
> Australia
>> has, that would let colleges do whatever the hell they want on
> campuses and
>> students would have access to everything. Then colleges would be
> delighted
>> to report usage since it would be no extra cost. And then filmmakers
> and
>> rights holders would see decent-sized checks on a regular basis rather
> than
>> have to invoice one film at a time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Come to think of it, this is what we should all be fighting for in
> congress rather
>> than trying to change copyright piecemeal. We even have a political
>> administration that is tech savvy.
>>
>>
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>
>> You are right. I misspoke about the word not being in the law. I
> regret
>> having sent my last email without thinking it through and being more
> clear.
>>
>> That said, I do still think that this wording does not mean that only
> less
>> than the whole can be used. The court cases and practices I sited
> before
>> make it pretty clear that it can. My reading, and I assume the reading
> of
>> the judges in those cases, is that "portion used in relation to the
> whole"
>> here is taken to mean "what percentage of the work is being used?"
>>
>> I'd like to know more about how judges have written about this in
> their
>> rulings. I'll snoop around a bit and see what I can come up with and
> share
>> it with the list.
>>
>> Thanks for keeping me honest!
>>
>> mb
>> ________________________________
>> From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [
>> videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Doros [
>> milefilms@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:43 PM
>>
>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] classroom use of "home and community viewing"
> dvd
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Brewer, Michael <
>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu<mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>>
>> wrote:
>> The law says nothing about it having to be a portion. There have been
> a
>> number of fair use cases that have been upheld where an entire work
> was
>> used. It could be a portion or more than a portion (an entire article,
> poem,
>> image, whatever).
>>
>>
>> Copyright Law Section 107
>>
>> * The purpose and character of the use, including whether such
> use is
>> of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
>> * The nature of the copyrighted work
>> * The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation
> to the
>> copyrighted work as a whole
>> * The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value
> of,
>> the copyrighted work
>>
>> --
>> Best,
>> Dennis Doros
>> Milestone Film & Video
>> PO Box 128
>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>>
>> email: milefilms@gmail.com<mailto:milefilms@gmail.com>
>> www.milestonefilms.com<http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>> www.arayafilm.com<http://www.arayafilm.com>
>> www.exilesfilm.com<http://www.exilesfilm.com>
>> www.killerofsheep.com<http://www.killerofsheep.com>
>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org<http://www.amianet.org>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control,
>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and
>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> effective
>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication
>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>> distributors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best,
>> Dennis Doros
>> Milestone Film & Video
>> PO Box 128
>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>> Phone: 201-767-3117
>> Fax: 201-767-3035
>> email: milefilms@gmail.com
>> www.milestonefilms.com
>> www.arayafilm.com
>> www.exilesfilm.com
>> www.killerofsheep.com
>> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control,
>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and
>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> effective
>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication
>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>> distributors.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best,
> Dennis Doros
> Milestone Film & Video
> PO Box 128
> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
> Phone: 201-767-3117
> Fax: 201-767-3035
> email: milefilms@gmail.com
> www.milestonefilms.com
> www.arayafilm.com
> www.exilesfilm.com
> www.killerofsheep.com
> AMIA St. Louis 2009: www.amianet.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment scrubbed and removed.
> HTML attachments are only available in MIME digests.
>
> End of videolib Digest, Vol 20, Issue 95
> ****************************************
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
> and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
> and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley

510-643-8566
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
--Francois Truffaut

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Wed Jul 29 12:51:56 2009

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