Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright

From: Jonathan Miller <jmiller@icarusfilms.com>
Date: Mon Apr 20 2009 - 10:31:09 PDT

This is a ridiculous analogy.
 
a) if a book store buys one copy of a book and then makes xeroxes of it for
their customers, instead of buying additional copies from the publisher, you
would say that was ... what?
 
b) if i set up a web site to tell avid readers which bookstores in town will
make them free copies of books, that would be ... ok with you?
 
c) If i paid a student to secretly film a star professors lectures and we
put them on the internet without getting permission and charged people $1 to
watch each lecture, that would be ... ok with the professor? his/her
publisher? the universtty?
 
d) but if i put them lectures up for free, then it would be ok?
 
 i suggest everyone retreat from exchanges of these emails, and go have a
meeting with your attorney.
 
JM
 
 

Jonathan Miller
President
Icarus Films
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA

tel 1.718.488.8900
fax 1.718.488.8642
www.IcarusFilms.com
jmiller@IcarusFilms.com

 

  _____

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chuck McCann
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 1:19 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright

Jessica said, "If I came into your library and copied book after book AFTER
you had been specifically contacted by publishers not to let me do it you
would indeed be liable."

 

It could also be described as - - If I came into your bookstore and began
browsing a book, perhaps I'll buy it, or perhaps not, nonetheless, I have
browsed it, therefore I've 'stolen' information therein, and, well, now the
bookstore is going to be sued by the publishers for allowing shoppers to
browser the store's inventory.

 

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:25 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright

 

In the case of Pirate Bay it was set up more or less for the purpose of
helping people break copyright ( and profiting from it ) If I came into your
library and copied book after book AFTER you had been specifically contacted
by publishers not to let me do it you would indeed be liable. You can't set
up something to specifically allow illegal activities and then say sorry I
had no clue they would do that. This is why Napster is no more. I remain
pretty dismayed by the lenient attitude towards Pirate Bay expressed by
some. I ask again if all Universities and cities etc decided to eliminate
Libraries and Librarians ( save a bank of free computers) because they
believe everything should simply be found and downloaded off the net (
copyright be damned) would say you were ambivalent ? Filmmakers and
distributors do get awfully touchy about the idea of just downloading
anything you want because you found a way to do it without bothering to pay
them.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Tiar, Marc <MTiar@washoecounty.us> wrote:

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other re: Pirate Bay and
others of the ilk; I can't defend their actions but I don't necessarily
think they are entirely guilty either. Let's just say, mixed feelings.

 

But "facilitation" being a crime.to what extent? Are libraries culpable of
facilitating by providing photocopiers if patrons violate copyright by
copying an entire magazine or small book? Is Xerox culpable for
manufacturing said machine? Is the inventor guilty for making the very
technology that allows photocopying to take place? All these actions have
facilitated (etymologically, meaning to make easier) the violation of
copyright law. Where exactly is the line?

 

Using the analogy below, if you give the bank plans for the purpose of
robbing it, then you in fact did "personally take part in the robbery" and
are indeed liable. If you gave the plans unknowingly, or under other
auspices (such as for HVAC work or architectural purposes) that are entirely
innocent, then you in fact are not liable. There's a key difference -
intent. See also <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea> "the guilty mind"
- mens rea. This leads back to the mention in an earlier email of the use
of "pirate" in the site's name. That indicates an intention of usage for
piracy, which helps build the case against them.

 

Marc

 

  _____

From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:10 PM

To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright

 

"facilitation" is a crime by itself. If I give you the plans to a bank which
you then use to rob it , I am liable even if I did not personally take part
in the robbery. You really believed there is any question this site is not
set up for the sole purpose of helping people do illegal downloads while it
sells ads ?

 

I think what has me, Dennis and others of upset is not what the correct
legal statute under which such an operation would be charged with if it
operated in the US but why a librarian who presumably wants to protect the
rights of authors, filmmakers, artists etc would find such a site appealing
and admirable ?

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Charles Mccann <cmccann@fsu.edu> wrote:

As I've seen it there are no copyrighted materials stored on their site,
there are however torrent addresses to potential materials that 'may' be
copyrighted and 'may not' be copyrighted, that's a matter for individuals
using the torrents to determine.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Doros <milefilms@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu

> Okay, I'll aim this at Chuck directly because I know most of you don't
> deserve the following. Chuck, there's a reason why "we"
> distributors rant
> sometimes and this is such a case. There is a difference between

> promotingcivil disobedience and promoting theft. I don't know how

> many times I have
> to mention that not only are there laws that can be broken but
> there's moral
> and ethical considerations that yes, I keep harping on but strongly

> believein. Isn't honesty and integrity something that is required

> in colleges?
> Should there be internet sites on how best to steal from your
> library? If
> you caught somebody doing this repeatedly, would you ignore it?
> What's the difference between stealing a film using the internet and
> stealing a dvd or book from the library? And in the latter case,
> it's only
> one book or dvd. On the internet, it's allowing thousands to steal.

> There'sseveral films of ours on their site and I happen to know

> that the directors
> need their royalties to pay, ironically enough, their kids' college
> educations. There's got to be a lot worthier things to do in life than
> promoting theft for profit. Obviously, the courts thought so too.
> Dennis
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Charles Mccann <cmccann@fsu.edu>
> wrote:
> > I don't see anything wrong with providing information, which is
> essentially> what The Pirate Bay was doing, it's like blaming a
> crime on a gun, in this
> > case an internet tool, for what a person dose with that tool.
> Saying, "no
> > brainier" is something a prosecutor might say, but that doesn't
> make a point
> > of reason, it does serve as trash talk to those with the opposite
> opinion.>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jessica Rosner <maddux2014@gmail.com>
> > Date: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:36 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright
> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> >
> > > I suspect it would be slam dunk in the US courts. I am getting
> > > senile and
> > > forgetting the name of that first file sharing site that got bitch
> > > slappeddown but laws in the US on this stuff heavily favor rights
> > > holders so I
> > > think this one would have been a no brainer.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Mark Kopp <mkopp@iu08.org>
> wrote:> >
> > > > Most of the similar convictions like this have occurred in
> courts> > outside> The United States though...another one was in
> Australia,> > if memory serves
> > > > correct. Point is, I don't think they would have been convicted
> > > in the
> > > > United States. Just a rambling thought...
> > > >
> > > > Mark W. Kopp
> > > > Technology Assistant
> > > > IT Department
> > > > Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
> > > > 4500 6th Avenue
> > > > Altoona, PA 16602
> > > > P: 814-940-0223 ext. 1384
> > > > F: 814-949-0984
> > > > C: 814-937-2802
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> > > > videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chuck McCann
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:33 PM
> > > > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright
> > > >
> > > > The sad, or ridiculous part is, The Pirate Bay' doesn't host
> > > anything, they
> > > > provide links to files that could be used to download things via
> > > torrents> ... the article completely misrepresents the real deal.
> > > ...interesting> nonetheless.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> > > > videolib-bounces@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Chuck McCann
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:08 PM
> > > > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > > > Subject: [Videolib] NEWS ...jailed for breaking copyright
> > > >
> > > > Pirate Bay four jailed for breaking copyright in Swedish file-
> > > sharing trial
> > > >
> > > > The founders of file-sharing website The Pirate Bay have been
> > > sentenced to
> > > > a year in jail in Sweden for breaking copyright laws by helping
> > > millions of
> > > > users download music, movies and computer games for free.
> > > >
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/ccyjt4
> > > >
> > > > Chuck McCann
> > > > Dept. Head, Digital Media Center
> > > > FSU Libraries
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
> discussion> > of issues
> > > > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > > control,> preservation, and use of current and evolving video
> > > formats in libraries and
> > > > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> > > effective> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> > > of communication
> > > > between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and
> > > > distributors.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
> discussion> > of issues
> > > > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > > control,> preservation, and use of current and evolving video
> > > formats in libraries and
> > > > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> > > effective> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> > > of communication
> > > > between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and
> > > > distributors.
> > > >
> > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
> discussion> > of issues
> > > > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > > control,> preservation, and use of current and evolving video
> > > formats in libraries and
> > > > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> > > effective> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> > > of communication
> > > > between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and
> > > > distributors.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
> of issues
> > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control,> preservation, and use of current and evolving video
> formats in libraries and
> > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> effective> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication
> > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > distributors.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best,
> Dennis Doros
> Milestone Film & Video
> PO Box 128
> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
> Phone: 201-767-3117
> Fax: 201-767-3035
> email: milefilms@gmail.com
> www.milestonefilms.com <http://www.milestonefilms.com/>
> www.exilesfilm.com <http://www.exilesfilm.com/>
> www.killerofsheep.com <http://www.killerofsheep.com/>
>
> St. Louis 2009
> www.amianet.org <http://www.amianet.org/>
>

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
distributors.

 

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
distributors.

 

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Received on Mon Apr 20 10:36:11 2009

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