Re: [Videolib] Cindy's copyright question

Jessica Rosner (maddux2014@gmail.com)
Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:59:25 -0400

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No Gary they won't be ON the list, I am just going to ask their opinion on
some issues that have come up and post the reply. Frankly we have all been
PLAYING copyright lawyer and hearing from a real one might be helpful. He
is a copyright specialist who has done work for probably every major studio
but he is also a big film buff and good guy.I discussed briefly with him
the suggestion here that an entire film could be covered under fair use with
folks pointing the Sony case and his eyes rolled and he started ticking off
the actual legal reasons this was not the case so I don't think asking him
to summarize this in paragraph or two that I can post is a bad idea.

With all due respect a copyright owners lawyer might be exactly what the
list needs at least for point of view. Frankly all of us have been throwing
out lots of legal opinions here but per the whole big thread a while back I
have yet to find a single librarian or institution willing to say 'Hey I am
sure it is legal to stream/copy/ digitize FANTASIA, MODERN TIMES, RAIDERS OF
THE LOST ARK for our academic needs and I am willing to say that my
institution does this. RIght now we have more or less a large underground of
illegal academic use ( I am not pointing to anyone on the list I just had
dinner with an old friend who teaches film at one the largest schools in the
country and digitize and stream pretty much anything a professor asks them
for). I assure this guy has better things to do with his time
for which he is paid handsomely but asked as a favor if I could get his
opinion on some of the issues that come up here a lot.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM, <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Great, Jessica...just what this list needs: a copyright owners' pit bull
> lawyer weighing in. I'm inclined to filter him or her a priori...
>
> gary
>
>
>
> > Carrie:
> > Is it your belief that provisions in the TEACH act apply to standard
> > bricks
> > and mortar classes in which
> > a professor may want to put up streamed material in ADDITION to what is
> > taught in class. I don't have any problem with clips or portions used in
> > classes but I am wondering if you are suggesting that an entire feature
> > film
> > could be streamed in non distance education setting as either part of say
> > "extra" studies for the class or so the dear little students could just
> > watch it again in the dorm. In other words do believe it is legal to
> > stream
> > a complete film for a course that is NOT taught on line,
> >
> > I know this is the position of the SCMS but then again their guidelines
> > were
> > in my opinion pretty nuts as in you can use something taped off TV ten
> > years, which your friend made you a copy of and stream it for your class.
> >
> > On a side note I was a a film festival this weekend ( very rare old
> films)
> > and met one of the top copyright lawyers
> > ( working on the rights holders side) and he has agreed to give his
> > opinion
> > on certain issues that have come up here
> > such as whether one could claim an entire film can be considered "fair
> > use",
> > streaming etc. So basically with any luck
> > I won't have to play at being a copyright expert I can borrow a real one.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Carrie Russell
> > <crussell@alawash.org>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Cindy:
> >>
> >> You can use clips on Blackboard in a secure environment, only for
> >> enrolled students, etc.
> >>
> >> There is no limit on the length of clip - it should be the length
> >> necessary to meet the teaching objective - the same length one would use
> >> in a "live" classroom.
> >>
> >> What this means:
> >> FOR DIGITIZING ANALOG WORKS, NO DIGITAL VERSION OF THE WORK IS AVAILABLE
> >> FREE FROM TECHNOLOGICAL PROTECTIONS THAT WOULD PREVENT THE USES
> >> AUTHORIZED IN SECTION 110.
> >>
> >> It means that you cannot copy an analog work to a digital version if
> >> there is a digital version of the title available for purchase. BUT if
> >> the digital versions that are available for purchase prevent you from
> >> copying a clip (because they are protected by technology like CSS) to
> >> use in Blackboard, then you can copy the analog version using the
> >> portion necessary to meet the teaching objective.
> >>
> >> But it sounds like you already have digital versions that you plan to
> >> stream so no need to make a digital copy of an analog version.
> >>
> >> Under TEACH (or fair use), you do not have to get permission for this
> >> use.
> >> -Carrie Russell
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:58:21 -0500
> >> From: "Badilla-Melendez, Cindy" <cbadillame@stthomas.edu>
> >> Subject: [Videolib] copyright question help
> >> To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" <videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
> >> Message-ID:
> >>
> >> <5012AD3225B6CF4A8307C3198E9242CA0381D3AC0C@UST-E2K7VS1.stthomas.edu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> I know this question has come up several times. I may wasn't paying
> >> attention or still did not hear an answer, or I am still confussed.
> >>
> >> A professor wants to put some clips of some documentaries on Blackboard.
> >> If I read correctly this is ok under the TEACH act and Fair USe, off
> >> course under a lot of conditions (a lot of them technological
> >> requirements). But also, talks about reasonable amounts and portions.
> >> What is a reasonalble amount? 10% or 3 minutes? I read that somewhere.
> >>
> >> TEACH Act alos talks about if the work would be part of what the
> >> professor will use in class and so on.
> >> I really don't uderstanda this part:
> >>
> >> FOR DIGITIZING ANALOG WORKS, NO DIGITAL VERSION OF THE WORK IS AVAILABLE
> >> FREE FROM TECHNOLOGICAL PROTECTIONS THAT WOULD PREVENT THE USES
> >> AUTHORIZED IN SECTION 110.
> >>
> >> So, can we or not take a DVD and stream portions and put them min
> >> blackboard for a semester, for students to review?
> >> Or we need to get permissions?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Cindy
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Cindy Badilla-Melendez
> >> Media Resources Librarian
> >> O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
> >> University of St. Thomas
> >> Mail #5004, 2115 Summit Ave,
> >> St Paul, MN 55105
> >> phone (651) 962-5464
> >> fax (651) 962-5406
> >>
> >>
> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >> issues
> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> >> control,
> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
> >> and
> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> >> effective
> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> >> distributors.
> >>
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of
> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> > producers and distributors.
> >
>
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
>
> 510-643-8566
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
> --Francois Truffaut
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>

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No Gary they won&#39;t be ON the list, I am just going to ask their opinion=
on some issues that have come up and post the reply. Frankly we have all b=
een PLAYING copyright lawyer and hearing from a real one =A0might be helpfu=
l. He is a copyright specialist who has done work for probably every major =
studio but he is also a big film buff and good guy.<div>
I =A0discussed briefly with him the suggestion here that an entire film cou=
ld be covered under fair use with folks pointing the Sony case and his eyes=
rolled and he started ticking off the actual legal reasons this was not th=
e case so I don&#39;t think asking him to summarize this in paragraph or tw=
o that I can post is a bad =A0idea.</div>
<div><br></div><div>With all due respect a copyright owners lawyer might be=
exactly what the list needs at least for point of view. Frankly all of us =
have been =A0throwing out lots of legal opinions here but per the whole =A0=
big thread a while back I have yet to find a single librarian or institutio=
n willing to say &#39;Hey I am sure it is legal to stream/copy/ digitize FA=
NTASIA, MODERN TIMES, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK for our academic needs and I =
am willing to say that my institution does this. RIght now we have more or =
less a large underground of illegal academic use ( I am not pointing to any=
one on the list I just had dinner with an old friend who teaches film at on=
e the largest schools in the country and digitize and stream pretty much an=
ything =A0a professor asks them for). =A0I assure this guy has better thing=
s to do with his time</div>
<div>for which he is paid handsomely but asked as a favor if I could get hi=
s opinion on some of the issues that come up here a lot.</div><div><br></di=
v><div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM,=
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ghandman@library.berkeley.edu">gh=
andman@library.berkeley.edu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Great, Jessica...just what this list needs:=
=A0a copyright owners&#39; pit bull<br>
lawyer weighing in. =A0I&#39;m inclined to filter him or her a priori...<br=
>
<br>
gary<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; Carrie:<br>
&gt; Is it your belief that provisions in the TEACH act apply to standard<b=
r>
&gt; bricks<br>
&gt; and mortar classes in which<br>
&gt; a professor =A0may =A0want to put up streamed material in ADDITION to =
what is<br>
&gt; taught in class. I don&#39;t have any problem with clips or portions u=
sed in<br>
&gt; classes but I am wondering if you are suggesting that an entire featur=
e<br>
&gt; film<br>
&gt; could be streamed in non distance education setting as either part of =
say<br>
&gt; &quot;extra&quot; studies for the class or so the dear little students=
could just<br>
&gt; watch it again in the dorm. In other words do believe it is legal to<b=
r>
&gt; stream<br>
&gt; a complete film for a course that is NOT taught on line,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I know this is the position of the SCMS but then again their guideline=
s<br>
&gt; were<br>
&gt; in my opinion pretty nuts as in you can use something taped off TV ten=
<br>
&gt; years, which your friend made you a copy of and stream it for your cla=
ss.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On a side note I was a a film festival this weekend ( very rare old fi=
lms)<br>
&gt; and met one of the top copyright lawyers<br>
&gt; ( working on the rights holders side) and he has agreed to give his<br=
>
&gt; opinion<br>
&gt; on certain issues that have come =A0up here<br>
&gt; such as whether one could claim an entire film can be considered &quot=
;fair<br>
&gt; use&quot;,<br>
&gt; streaming etc. So basically with any luck<br>
&gt; I won&#39;t have to play at being a copyright expert I can borrow a re=
al one.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Carrie Russell<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crussell@alawash.org">crussell@alawash.org</a>&g=
t;wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Cindy:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; You can use clips on Blackboard in a secure environment, only for<=
br>
&gt;&gt; enrolled students, etc.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; There is no limit on the length of clip - it should be the length<=
br>
&gt;&gt; necessary to meet the teaching objective - the same length one wou=
ld use<br>
&gt;&gt; in a &quot;live&quot; classroom.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What this means:<br>
&gt;&gt; FOR DIGITIZING ANALOG WORKS, NO DIGITAL VERSION OF THE WORK IS AVA=
ILABLE<br>
&gt;&gt; FREE FROM TECHNOLOGICAL PROTECTIONS THAT WOULD PREVENT THE USES<br=
>
&gt;&gt; AUTHORIZED IN SECTION 110.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; It means that you cannot copy an analog work to a digital version =
if<br>
&gt;&gt; there is a digital version of the title available for purchase. =
=A0BUT if<br>
&gt;&gt; the digital versions that are available for purchase prevent you f=
rom<br>
&gt;&gt; copying a clip (because they are protected by technology like CSS)=
to<br>
&gt;&gt; use in Blackboard, then you can copy the analog version using the<=
br>
&gt;&gt; portion necessary to meet the teaching objective.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; But it sounds like you already have digital versions that you plan=
to<br>
&gt;&gt; stream so no need to make a digital copy of an analog version.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Under =A0TEACH (or fair use), you do not have to get permission fo=
r this<br>
&gt;&gt; use.<br>
&gt;&gt; -Carrie Russell<br>
&gt;&gt; ------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Message: 5<br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:58:21 -0500<br>
&gt;&gt; From: &quot;Badilla-Melendez, Cindy&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cb=
adillame@stthomas.edu">cbadillame@stthomas.edu</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: [Videolib] copyright question help<br>
&gt;&gt; To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu">videolib@=
lists.berkeley.edu</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.=
edu">videolib@lists.berkeley.edu</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Message-ID:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:5012AD3225B6CF4A8307C3198E9242CA0381D3AC0C@U=
ST-E2K7VS1.stthomas.edu">5012AD3225B6CF4A8307C3198E9242CA0381D3AC0C@UST-E2K=
7VS1.stthomas.edu</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D&quot;us-ascii&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; I know this question has come up several times. I may wasn&#39;t p=
aying<br>
&gt;&gt; attention or still did not hear an answer, or I am still confussed=
.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; A professor wants to put some clips of some documentaries on Black=
board.<br>
&gt;&gt; If I read correctly this is ok under the TEACH act and Fair USe, o=
ff<br>
&gt;&gt; course under a lot of conditions (a lot of them technological<br>
&gt;&gt; requirements). But also, talks about reasonable amounts and portio=
ns.<br>
&gt;&gt; What is a reasonalble amount? 10% or 3 minutes? I read that somewh=
ere.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; TEACH Act alos talks about if the work would be part of what the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; professor will use in class and so on.<br>
&gt;&gt; I really don&#39;t uderstanda this part:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; FOR DIGITIZING ANALOG WORKS, NO DIGITAL VERSION OF THE WORK IS AVA=
ILABLE<br>
&gt;&gt; FREE FROM TECHNOLOGICAL PROTECTIONS THAT WOULD PREVENT THE USES<br=
>
&gt;&gt; AUTHORIZED IN SECTION 110.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; So, can we or not take a DVD and stream portions and put them min<=
br>
&gt;&gt; blackboard for a semester, for students to review?<br>
&gt;&gt; Or we need to get permissions?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; Cindy<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; __________________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Cindy Badilla-Melendez<br>
&gt;&gt; Media Resources Librarian<br>
&gt;&gt; O&#39;Shaughnessy-Frey Library,<br>
&gt;&gt; University of St. Thomas<br>
&gt;&gt; Mail #5004, 2115 Summit Ave,<br>
&gt;&gt; St Paul, MN 55105<br>
&gt;&gt; phone (651) 962-5464<br>
&gt;&gt; fax (651) 962-5406<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion =
of<br>
&gt;&gt; issues<br>
&gt;&gt; relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; control,<br>
&gt;&gt; preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in lib=
raries<br>
&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt;&gt; related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; effective<br>
&gt;&gt; working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communi=
cation<br>
&gt;&gt; between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers an=
d<br>
&gt;&gt; distributors.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of<b=
r>
&gt; issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographi=
c<br>
&gt; control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats i=
n<br>
&gt; libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will ser=
ve<br>
&gt; as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channe=
l of<br>
&gt; communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video<br=
>
&gt; producers and distributors.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>Gary Handman<br>
Director<br>
Media Resources Center<br>
Moffitt Library<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
510-643-8566<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ghandman@library.berkeley.edu">ghandman@library.berkeley.=
edu</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC" target=3D"_blank">http://www.li=
b.berkeley.edu/MRC</a><br>
<br>
&quot;I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself.&quot;<=
br>
--Francois Truffaut<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues=
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, =
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries an=
d related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effectiv=
e working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication =
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distrib=
utors.<br>

</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.

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