Re: [Videolib] Restricted PPR

Jessica Rosner (jrosner@kino.com)
Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:41:15 -0500

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Well perhaps this discussion may encourage Zeitgiest to modify limits on th=
e
number of users for class but there are of course
A mix of different issues. The way I see it you have 3 different types of
PPR & Pricing

1. A situation like the title we started with where the film is VERY new ,
still playing in theaters and not yet released in the home market. Here you
have to decide if the extra price is worth it depending on budget and
whether it is again needed
ASAP or you can wait it out for home use copy to be available.

2 Two tiered pricing where a title IS available in the home market but you
are =B3encouraged=B2 to buy the higher priced model for PPR rights you probabl=
y
don=B9t need ( FYI as streaming becomes more desired this may change) . Here
you basically have to use common sense and make sure you know your options

3. =B3Educational =B3 titles that don=B9t really have any home market. In this
case an item has the high price because it=B9s market is so limited that the
only way the distributor can release is more or less institutional only.
You have to way the merits of the price Vs your needs but don=B9t expect it
to pop up on Amazon for $20 in a few months.

I have had experience with all the above ( though not a lot with # 3). I
have had instances where a school called and wanted a copy of something we
had opened two weeks ago and were not planning to put out on video for 10
months. I explained if they REALLY needed it I could sell them a copy for
say $250 or they could wait 10 months. I was surprised at how many needed
right then and there because there was no telling professor Smith he could
not have the film he read about in
The NEW YORK TIMES that Sunday.

Best thing is to be informed as to films status and your campuses and
decide from there.

On 11/12/08 2:06 PM, "jwoo" <jwoo@cca.edu> wrote:

> This has been an interesting and enlightening discussion. =A0Because I get =
to
> call the shots at my library, I've added a clause to our collection
> development policy that curtails our purchase of materials with restricti=
ons
> like those of Zeitgeist.
>=20
> =20
> "Use Restrictions: The library does not acquire material with arbitrary u=
se
> restrictions, such as a limitation of who can use the material or how man=
y
> people can use the material unless the rationale is well founded. Limitat=
ion
> of use to only CCA constituencies is considered reasonable."
> =20
>=20
> We'll wait until the non-PPR version is released; and in the meantime wou=
ld
> inform a requester that this library "don't play that game" with publishe=
rs.
>=20
> -- Janice at California College of the Arts
>=20
>=20
> On Nov 11, 2008, at 7:12 AM, Jessica Rosner wrote:
>=20
>> Well technically they can indeed place limits on it=A0 which would restric=
t
>> its use, the question here would be if the brochure constitutes a "contr=
act"
>> and what if anything you would be signing and agreeing to in purchasing =
it.
>> Contract does trump copyright law but presumably only if that is very cl=
ear.
>> Since they are the exclusive seller/owner they can if they wish add
>> restrictions as a term of sale. However personally I think the 50 person
>> figure was probably arbitrary and NOT aimed at classroom use. They are
>> actually offering rights which go well beyond classroom =A0 "Face to face"=
use
>> and as the film is still in theaters I strongly suspect they just=A0 meant=
to
>> protect that. I think if you called them and said we need it for a class=
of
>> more than 50 there would not be a problem.
>>=20
>> It is also worth noting that the film will probably come out in home use
>> edition some time in the future but many places can't afford to wait if =
they
>> need to use it now.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 11/10/08 9:33 PM, "jwoo" <jwoo@cca.edu> wrote:
>>=20
>> =20
>>> Hi.=A0 This is going over old ground somewhat, but is there such a
>>> thing as Public Performance Rights with an asterisk?
>>>=20
>>> I got a Zeitgeist brochure for a Louise Bourgeois DVD where the PPR*
>>> is only for "screenings to groups of up to 50 people=A0 (libraries,
>>> classrooms, churches, clubs, etc.) when no admission is charged."
>>>=20
>>> Would this be binding if an institution bought a copy?=A0 What if a
>>> class has 51 students enrolled?=A0 Who's supposed to monitor the class
>>> size a video is being checked out for?
>>>=20
>>> Does the TEACH Act trump such language?
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Janice @ CCA.edu
>>>=20
>>> p.s. it says the dvd is available exclusively to institutions, and
>>> there is no option for non-PPR purchase
>>>=20
>=20
>=20
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issu=
es
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries =
and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effectiv=
e
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.

Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
=20
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

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Re: [Videolib] Restricted PPR Well perhaps this discussion may encourage Zeitgiest to modify limits on t= he number of users for class but there are of course
A mix of different issues. The way I see it you have 3 different types of P= PR & Pricing

  1. A situation like the title we started with where the= film is VERY new , still playing in theaters and not yet released in the ho= me market. Here you have to decide if the extra price is worth it depending = on budget and whether it is again needed
ASAP or you can wait it out for home use copy to be ava= ilable.

2  Two tiered pricing where a title IS available in the home market bu= t you are “encouraged” to buy the higher  priced model for = PPR rights you probably don’t need ( FYI as streaming becomes more des= ired this may change) . Here you basically have to use common sense  an= d make sure you know your options

3. “Educational “ titles that don’t really have any home = market. In this case an item has the high price because it’s market is= so limited that the only way the distributor can release is more or less in= stitutional only.  You have to way the  merits of the price Vs you= r needs but don’t expect it to pop up on Amazon for $20 in a few month= s.

I have had experience  with all the above  ( though not a lot wit= h # 3). I have had instances where a school called and wanted a copy of some= thing we had opened two weeks ago and were not planning to put out on video = for 10 months. I explained if they REALLY needed it I could sell them a copy= for say $250 or they could wait 10 months. I was surprised at how  man= y needed right then and there because there was no telling professor Smith h= e could not have the film he read about in
The NEW YORK TIMES that Sunday.

Best thing is to be informed as to films status and  your campuses &nb= sp;and decide from there.



On 11/12/08 2:06 PM, "jwoo" <jwoo@cca.e= du> wrote:

<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:11pt'>This has been an interesting and enlightening di= scussion. =A0Because I get to call the shots at my library, I've added a claus= e to our collection development policy that curtails our purchase of materia= ls with restrictions like those of Zeitgeist.

 
"Use Restrictions: The library does not acquire material with arbitrar= y use restrictions, such as a limitation of who can use the material or how = many people can use the material unless the rationale is well founded. Limit= ation of use to only CCA constituencies is considered reasonable."
  

We'll wait until the non-PPR version is released; and in the meantime would= inform a requester that this library "don't play that game" with = publishers.

-- Janice at California College of the Arts


On Nov 11, 2008, at 7:12 AM, Jessica Rosner wrote:

<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:11pt'>Well technically they can indeed place limits on= it=A0 which would restrict
its use, the question here would be if the brochure constitutes a "con= tract"
and what if anything you would be signing and agreeing to in purchasing it.=
Contract does trump copyright law but presumably only if that is very clear= .
Since they are the exclusive seller/owner they can if they wish add
restrictions as a term of sale. However personally I think the 50 person=
figure was probably arbitrary and NOT aimed at classroom use.
They are<= BR> actually offering rights which go well beyond classroom =A0 "Face to fac= e" use
and as the film is still in theaters I strongly suspect they just=A0 meant to=
protect that. I think if you called them and said we need it for a class of=
more than 50 there would not be a problem.

It is also worth noting that the film will probably come out in home use edition some time in the future but many places can't afford to wait if the= y
need to use it now.


On 11/10/08 9:33 PM, "jwoo" <jwoo@cca.e= du> wrote:

 
<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:11pt'>Hi.=A0 This is going over old ground somewhat, but= is there such a
thing as Public Performance Rights with an asterisk?

I got a Zeitgeist brochure for a Louise Bourgeois DVD where the PPR*
is only for "screenings to groups of up to 50 people=A0 (libraries,
classrooms, churches, clubs, etc.) when no admission is charged."

Would this be binding if an institution bought a copy?=A0 What if a
class has 51 students enrolled?=A0 Who's supposed to monitor the class
size a video is being checked out for?

Does the TEACH Act trump such language?

Thanks, Janice @ CCA.edu

p.s. it says the dvd is available exclusively to institutions, and
there is no option for non-PPR purchase



VIDEOLIB is= intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to= the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation,= and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related inst= itutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool = for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between librarie= s,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.



Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
 
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.

--===============3049510388013169577==--