Re: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection[Scanned]

ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT)

Well...here's the deal: if all you want to do is deliver specific titles
to specific classes for a limited period of time...groovy. If what you
want to do is deliver a diverse, standing collection of material to a
broad clientele for the long haul...it sucks.

Again: CDIGIX delivers files which live on the institution's server and
are downloaded to the desktops of specified clients (a specific class, for
eg)on demand. The files play for a specified period of time (a quarter, a
semester) and then lock down.

In my book this model is completely unsatisfactory for doing what
libraries generally do. It's much more geared to doing what instructional
IT shops typically do: respond to short term teaching needs, rather than
supporting carefully selected and maintained bodies of content.

gary

> "...tightly wrapped in Digital Rights Management protections"
>
> Well, this is a new twist in favor of what CDIGIX can provide.
>
> Interesting...
>
> Quoting Gary Handman <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>:
>
>> Yeah...most students have the right stuff installed (Real Player,
>> Quicktime, Windows Media)
>>
>> Streamed media (including Flash--used on YouTube and Google Video)
>> can be captured on the fly...there are lots of cheap plug-ins out
>> there that allow this. The image looks like absolute crap, but it
>> can be done.
>>
>> In the case of CDIGIX and others, the file that is downloaded to the
>> desktop comes tightly wrapped in Digital Rights Management
>> protections. After a set period of time, the picture is no longer
>> playable.
>>
>> Gary Handman
>>
>> At 01:10 PM 6/20/2007, you wrote:
>>> Since it is well established that I am a luddite with no understanding
>>> of
>>> these things two questions
>>>
>>> Does every student's computer have this proprietary media player
>>> installed
>>> so they can when it is approved download a film and then the question
>>> is
>>> what is to prevent those clever students from keeping the film and or
>>> copying it.
>>> I am JUST asking because I don't understand this stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/20/07 12:24 PM, "Mark Kopp" <mkopp@iu08.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > There are so many angles and so many arguments, it's hard to vette
>>> out
>>> > just what is being discussed, although it appears to be the same ole,
>>> > same ole. Librarians want to make their library materials available
>>> in
>>> > more efficient manner. To do so, requires a change in format. Rights
>>> > owners are worried about how they will get paid for such format
>>> > transfer. The media center would like to simply transfer the format,
>>> but
>>> > that seems to be a sticking point. The reason for the sticking point
>>> is
>>> > that the rights holder doesn't want to make the product "open" to the
>>> > world.
>>> >
>>> > In steps technology! There are systems available that can be digital,
>>> > AND ensure the end user cannot "distribute" a protected video...AND
>>> only
>>> > allow one viewing at a time, if indeed, that's the rights' holders'
>>> real
>>> > issue...that "one-at-a-time" viewing exception.
>>> >
>>> > Let me explain... (don't ask, I purchased digital materials with
>>> proper
>>> > rights)
>>> >
>>> > The Teacher reserves a "digital" file.
>>> > The file is delivered via "DOWNLOAD".
>>> > The end user has our proprietary media player installed on their
>>> > computer, with username and password.
>>> > That file cannot be opened by another player.
>>> > When the teacher opens the file, the PLAYER contacts the reservation
>>> > server and ensures several issues are addressed.
>>> > 1) Is there a current reservation
>>> > 2) Is the user a "registered" user who is allowed to view.
>>> > 3) The particular file has preset parameters that allow for 1 to 100
>>> (or
>>> > more) simultaneous viewings
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > IF....
>>> > The reservation is not current, the file does not play.
>>> > The user does not have permission, the file does not play.
>>> > The file has preset permissions that only allow one viewing at a
>>> time,
>>> > the file does not play, if there are others viewing at that time.
>>> >
>>> > The files are delivered AND managed via the Internet. It seems to
>>> > address issues on BOTH sides.
>>> >
>>> > Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Mark W. Kopp
>>> > Technology Assistant
>>> > IT Department
>>> > Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
>>> > 4500 6th Avenue
>>> > Altoona, PA 16602
>>> > P: 814-940-0223
>>> > F: 814-949-0984
>>> > C: 814-937-2802
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine
>>> > Chahine
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:32 AM
>>> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> > Subject: RE: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection[Scanned]
>>> >
>>> > Ironically, streaming may be the solution. Pay per view?
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica
>>> Rosner
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:52 AM
>>> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> > Subject: Re: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection
>>> >
>>> > I am guessing if a film is used in course with say several sessions
>>> or a
>>> > couple of hundred students enrolled most libraries are going to need
>>> a
>>> > couple of copies under the current old fashioned show it class and
>>> put
>>> > on reserve system. For a small class I assume one copy would suffice.
>>> >
>>> > I think EVERYONE here wants to reach that elusive happy medium where
>>> > institutions pay a fare price for what they actually need and
>>> > distributors can afford to make good titles available. How to achieve
>>> > this though is of course very tricky. You have sadly lots of
>>> academics
>>> > who often think they should be able to use anything for almost
>>> nothing
>>> > and on the flip side distributors with mult-tiered pricing often
>>> forcing
>>> > schools to buy expensive rights they may not need.
>>> >
>>> > What frustrates me the most is that both "sides" often appear to be
>>> > work in a vacuum. As far as I could tell the Copyright pre conference
>>> > program at ALA and most things like it, never seem to include
>>> > distributors or their point of view and distributors tend to assume
>>> that
>>> > if an institution has thousands or tens of thousands of students all
>>> of
>>> > them should pay for a film only a small fraction will ever watch
>>> >
>>> > Anyone got any solutions?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 6/20/07 10:18 AM, "Catherine Chahine"
>>> > <catherine@nationalfilmnetwork.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Mark,
>>> >>
>>> >> Multiple copies bought? Are you kidding me? Universities are buying
>>> 1
>>> >> copy at the home video price (between $20 and $30) and that is it
>>> >> for--your numbers--240 to 300 students. Go ahead and point the
>>> finger
>>> >> at the bad distributor that wants so much money as much as you can,
>>> >> but if you do not have the digital rights and do not want to pay a
>>> >> license fee, do not
>>> > stream
>>> >> at all and let the distributors figure out how to deliver that
>>> format
>>> >> to your students legally.
>>> >>
>>> >> Catherine
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> >> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Richie
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:57 PM
>>> >> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection
>>> >>
>>> >> Two observations: The notion that a DVD (MPEG-4) file would be used
>>> >> as the basis of a streaming system has been thrown about in this
>>> >> thread several times, to
>>> >> whit:
>>> >>
>>> >> " . . . About that single DVD copy that's
>>> >> being used to make the file for
>>> >> streaming ... "
>>> >>
>>> >> and
>>> >> " . . . . . strip a DVD, dump it on a server and stream
>>> >> for everyone . . . ."
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Given the incredible compression ratio of MPEG-4 and the bandwidth
>>> >> required to move an MPEG-4 file why would MPEG-4 be the file format
>>> of
>>> >
>>> >> choice for a streaming system?
>>> >> Certainly not for the clarity.
>>> >> Moving and MPEG-4 means streaming a lot of resolution quality that
>>> >> can't be resolved at the user desktop. It will be seen on a computer
>>> >> screen, not an HDTV.
>>> >>
>>> >> Second:
>>> >>
>>> >> This gem has surfaced again, as it has in other threads about
>>> >> streaming and/or digital rights -----
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> " Gary, I have been told by many librarians at
>>> > the
>>> >> diverse ALAs I went to
>>> >> that they consider that the public performance
>>> price
>>> >> is plenty and covers all
>>> >> their streaming rights. If I was a librarian I
>>> would
>>> >> certainly want to
>>> >> believe that too. But I'm on the other side of the
>>> >> fence here and my
>>> >> opinion is that a $200 copy does not cover a campus
>>> of
>>> >
>>> >> 10,000 students. . . ."
>>> >>
>>> >> I've been working with digital rights issues since 1999 and I have
>>> >> never heard a reasonable video librarian expect to pay the same for
>>> >> digital rights as a single copy PPR video.
>>> >> On the other hand it is a specious argument to flash the "10,000
>>> >> student" argument as justification for a per pupil charge or some
>>> >> other exorbitant pricing scheme.
>>> >>
>>> >> First, why can't $200 cover a campus of 10,000 students? Are all
>>> >> 10,000 students going to use the video?
>>> >> Second, this market place has a history of multi-copy discounting
>>> and
>>> >> hard copy duplication rights contracts.
>>> >> In a regional media center the purchase of multiple copies or dupe
>>> >> rights of high demand titles drove the "unit" price down, not up.
>>> >>
>>> >> In a university environment one copy may suffice to cover three
>>> >> sections of a specific course offered each semester. Total viewings?
>>> >> What, 35-40 students per section? Perhaps 240 to 300 viewers in six
>>> >> class showings?
>>> >>
>>> >> Now, enter streaming technology. Professor assigns the title to
>>> watch
>>> >> as homework. Students stream the title at will (time shift viewing)
>>> >> and watch it at home or in the dorm, or on their iPod, or vPhone et
>>> >> al. Total number of viewers? About 240 to 300.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hmmmmmmmm and for this some distributors suddenly want $2,000 up
>>> front
>>> >
>>> >> for a five year license? And another $2,000 or $3,000 to renew? So
>>> >> let's get a grip on reality here. It cost the same per running
>>> >> finished minute to produce a video for release in hard copy as it
>>> >> does for release with streaming rights. The fact that it is
>>> available
>>> >> on a university digital server does not mean that suddenly 6,000
>>> >> people are going to want to download the title and keep it for
>>> > posterity.
>>> >>
>>> >> Educational digital servers are generally password protected and
>>> users
>>> >
>>> >> have to register to gain access to search the catalog of titles.
>>> >> For the convenience of making content available to students and
>>> staff
>>> >> 24/7 and for not having to stock two or three hard copies that are
>>> >> subject to damage and loss, yea - that's worth a premium over the
>>> >> cost of two or three hard copies with PPR.
>>> >>
>>> >> But the notion that digital media is so special that we should
>>> agree
>>> >> to pay six times the hard copy list price and be expected to pay it
>>> >> again five years later is a disservice to the customer /
>>> distributor
>>> >> relationship. It is false economics and false pricing. The value
>>> >> added simply isn't there.
>>> >>
>>> >> Oh, yea - the first counter argument to this is "but our contracts
>>> >> with the producers demand these prices . ." So what. Rewrite the
>>> > contracts!
>>> >> What? Did you loose a bet and you HAD to accept the contract from
>>> the
>>> >> producer with a digital pricing rider that looks like extortion?
>>> >> Ultimately the market place decides what is a fair price. But the
>>> >> buyer side has to get wise to the thinking behind the rates set for
>>> >> digital rights and see them for what they are.
>>> >>
>>> >> Mark Richie
>>> >> EFLA,AFVA,NARMC,NFM
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> > issues
>>> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>> >> in libraries
>>> > and
>>> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> >> effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> >> producers and distributors.
>>> >>
>>> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> > issues
>>> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>> >> in libraries
>>> > and
>>> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> >> effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> >> producers and distributors.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>> >
>>> > Jessica Rosner
>>> > Kino International
>>> > 333 W 39th St. 503
>>> > NY NY 10018
>>> > jrosner@kino.com
>>> > 212-629-6880
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>> in
>>> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>> serve
>>> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>> channel
>>> > of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>> video
>>> > producers and distributors.
>>> >
>>> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>> in
>>> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>> serve
>>> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>> channel
>>> > of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>> video
>>> > producers and distributors.
>>> >
>>> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
>>> of issues
>>> > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control,
>>> > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and
>>> > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>>> effective
>>> > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication
>>> > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> > distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>
>>> Jessica Rosner
>>> Kino International
>>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>> NY NY 10018
>>> jrosner@kino.com
>>> 212-629-6880
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>> distributors.
>>
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>
>> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of
>> life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>
>> --Guy Debord
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>> distributors.
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley

510-643-8566
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
--Guy Debord

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.