Re: [Videolib] Bullfrog / CA Newsreel / FRIF & WMM > re

Gary Handman (ghandman@library.berkeley.edu)
Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:20:56 -0700

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Hi Jon

I totally agree. I've beat my head against the wall with these folks over
the past year trying to get this point across, but they're apparently more
interested in selling systems than in protecting their customers from
infringement. I think CDIGIX really believes in their viewpoint: they've
supposedly talked with studios (Paramount, et al.) and their lawyers
support their position (at least that's what they say). The bottom line is
that CDIGIX would probably not be the ones culpable in the case of an
infringement suit: the institution delivering the goods would be.

Gary

PS: I've got to say, for the record, that the CDIGIX folks are very nice
and pretty straight forward--I don't think they're unscrupulous in the
least...just misguided. In any case, I think this is really a case of
caveat emptor...

At 05:55 PM 6/18/2007, you wrote:
>Dear Gary, Mark et al:
>
>As some of you know our four companies - Bullfrog Films, California
>Newsreel, First Run/Icarus Films, and Women Make Movies - have been working
>together on a number of fronts related to the evolution of the film
>distribution in general and our companies in particular, and the evolving
>use of Digital Video, with a current focus (for us) on Higher Education.
>
>In light of that we want to add (jointly) to this exchange, to say for the
>record that none of our companies will accept CDIGIX's argument (which we
>have been told they have put to some of our customers), and we urge you not
>to either. It is wrong as a matter of law (and we will protect our and our
>filmmakers' rights), and it would not make sense for any of us to continue
>to do business with any institution which accepts their position.
>
>However, if you wish to digitize and stream or make available over networks
>etc. any of our titles currently in your collections, or wish to acquire
>digital files or streaming rights to any new films, all four of our
>companies are ready to work with you to make that possible.
>
>And, as our plans and yours develop, we look forward to doing so.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Jonathan Miller
>
>On behalf of:
> Bullfrog Films: www.bullfrogfilms.com
> California Newsreel: www.newsreel.org
> First Run/Icarus Films: www.frif.com
> Women Make Movies: www.wmm.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Handman
>Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:14 AM
>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection
>
>The TEACH act has nothing whatsoever to do with digitizing standing
>collections of materials or even digitizing whole works for short-term
>on-demand transmission (i.e. reserves). TEACH supports the digital delivery
>of portions of works in the context of SYCHRONOUS teaching (i.e. I'm
>teaching a class in Berkeley and New York simultaneously via distance
>technologies and what to show a portion of a video to both)
>
>And yes yes yes, it is my opinion (the opinion of a librarian not a lawyer)
>that one would need a license to digitize and deliver a copyrighted
>work. CDIGIX contends that their lawyers say
>otherwise. Remember: they're not the ones who would be hauled into court
>for infringement.
>
>Gary
>
>
>At 07:38 PM 6/17/2007, you wrote:
> >So...is it the opinion that it is necessary to obtain additional licensing
> >to digitize titles already in one's collection in order to provide it for
> >reserve-type purposes via something like CDIGIX? They seem to be taking
> >the position it is o.k. under the TEACH act.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Mark
> >
> >Gary Handman wrote:
> >>Thanks God for a discussion thread NOT about copyright...
> >>OK...here's my 2.5 cents (damn, I miss the cents key on the keyboard!):
> >>I did a LOT of talking with CDIGIX last year...went to a little
> >>brainstorming session they hosted in Baltimore. My final take on the
> >>company is that, while the product and service they're offering may suit
> >>reserve-type viewing (i.e. point-of-need digitization and short-term
> >>retention), CDIGIX is largely not geared to supporting the long-term,
> >>on-going needs of standing collections. If all you're doing is
> >>responding to the need to temporarily put up requested titles, the CDIGIX
> >>route may work just swell; if, on the otherhand, you're considering
> >>building "standing" digital collections, I don't think they work very
> >>well. Like a number of other 3rd party solutions, the CDIGIX route is
> >>predicated on wrapping content tightly in a Digital Rights Management
> >>shell which requires specifying a particular time frame (and, I seem to
> >>recall, a strictly delineated client base). It's a model that's better
> >>suited for entertainment delivery than library collection development and
> >>management, in my opinion. Although I think you CAN somehow set the DRM
> >>specifications to open-ended, I seem to recall that it's somewhat of a
> >>pain to do so.
> >>Here's what we've finally decided to do here (and it's probably not for
> >>everyone): We've recently purchased a Digital Rapids encoding unit which
> >>will allow us to do in-house digitization to our specifications.
> >>After months and months and months of agonizing about standards, I've
> >>finally bitten the bullet and thrown in my hat in the...gulp...Microsoft
> >>ring: we're gonna digitize for Windows Media and deliver over a Windows
> >>streaming server. Our systems guys are staunchly anti-Mac, which pains
> >>me greatly, but there's not much I can do at the moment. If they
> >>weren't, I'd probably be encoding to QuickTime. We'll probably transcode
> >>the stuff we license into MPG2 or 4, so if we change our minds about
> >>delivery standards in the future, we can easily recrank the stuff.
> >>So, how this will work: we will license appropriate content (Bullfrog,
> >>California Newsreel et al), We've just gotten a small grant to support
> >>four very large survey classes that have asked us to put up video
> >>(fortunately, most of the stuff they've asked for is licenseable). We
> >>will encode to Windows Media and serve out from our server. The
> >>materials will be made available to all UCB-authenticated users, on
> >>campus and off. For stuff available as "ready-made" Windows Media
> >>digital files (e.g. Films Media and PBS), we'll buy these and mount
> >>them. For the stuff we've encoded, the classes will embed links to the
> >>files in the course learning management system. We will also fully
> >>catalog the titles and include links to the video files in our OPAC, as
> >>well as in the MRC web site.
> >>In the long run, one of the most challenging decisions for ANYONE getting
> >>into this business of VOD in ANY form will be how to decide what to
>license.
> >>As I've written earlier on videolib, there is often a fairly wide
> >>disjuncture between what is actually being used or requested and what is
> >>available for digital rights licensing. The bottom line at Berkeley is
> >>that what's used most in classrooms (movies) is currently out of reach as
> >>far as digital delivery. On the other hand, licensing ONLY those items
> >>which are immediately needed to support curriculum has its drawbacks,
> >>too, in terms of long-term collection development needs.
> >>We also intend to begin digitizing stuff for which we believe we have
> >>Section 108 preservation rights. These will be limited to building-level
> >>IP addresses (although, if I were putting my money where my mouth is (cf
> >>my recent diatribes on videolib re 108 rights), I'd make these more
> >>broadly available to UC users both on campus and off. I'm still too
> >>chicken to do this, I think.
> >>I've decided to go the DIY route for a number of reasons: it's clear to
> >>me that remote access to video via remote vendor's server simply isn't
> >>satisfactory in terms of image resolution and size and network
> >>efficiency. I really like Films Media's little front end (which allows
> >>the user to define clip sequences and to create learning objects), but
> >>the image via FM's server just doesn't make it.
> >>We're doing the encoding in-house because, frankly, our Library Systems
> >>Office is clueless and unwilling or incapable of taking this on. Campus
> >>computing and our Educational Technology guys are similarly completely
> >>out of the question in terms of economics, willingness, and corporate
> >>culture. So...we're biting the bullet and trying it ourselves.
> >>We get the hardware in a few weeks. Stay tuned.
> >>Gary
> >>
> >>At 08:12 AM 6/12/2007, you wrote:
> >>>I've been talking to CDIGIX about licensing some of our videos to stream
> >>>out and authenticate through Blackboard.
> >>>
> >>>QUESTION: What are your experiences with streaming videos from your
> >>>collection, other vendors, any thoughts or comments on this topic will
> >>>be great appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Chuck McCann
> >>>Dept. Head, Digital Media Center
> >>>Florida State Libraries
> >>>"Ask A Media Librarian" AIM account/e-mail: cmccann@mailer.fsu.edu
> >>>http://www.lib.fsu.edu/dlmc/dmc
> >>>850.644.3094 or 850.644.5924
> >>>
> >>>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >>>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> >>>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> >>>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> >>>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> >>>of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> >>>producers and distributors.
> >>Gary Handman
> >>Director
> >>Media Resources Center
> >>Moffitt Library
> >>UC Berkeley
> >>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
> >>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
> >>presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
> >>--Guy Debord
> >>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> >>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> >>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> >>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> >>of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> >>producers and distributors.
> >
> >--
> >Mark D. Gooch
> >Technology and Government Information Librarian
> >The College of Wooster Libraries
> >1140 Beall Avenue
> >Wooster, Ohio 44691
> >Phone: 330/263-2522
> >FAX: 330/263-2253
> >mgooch@wooster.edu
> >AIM: mgooch90
> >Yahoo! IM: mgooch1
> >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> >control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> >libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> >as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> >communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> >producers and distributors.
>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
>presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
>
>--Guy Debord
>
>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
>relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
>preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
>related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
>working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
>between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>distributors.
>
>
>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>producers and distributors.

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."

--Guy Debord

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Jon

I totally agree.  I've beat my head against the wall with these folks over the past year trying to get this point across, but they're apparently more interested in selling systems than in protecting their customers from infringement.  I think CDIGIX really believes in their viewpoint:  they've supposedly talked with studios (Paramount, et al.) and their lawyers support their position (at least that's what they say).  The bottom line is that CDIGIX would probably not be the ones culpable in the case of an infringement suit:  the institution delivering the goods would be.

Gary

PS:  I've got to say, for the record, that the CDIGIX folks are very nice and pretty straight forward--I don't think they're unscrupulous in the least...just misguided.  In any case, I think this is really a case of caveat emptor...

At 05:55 PM 6/18/2007, you wrote:

Dear Gary, Mark et al:

As some of you know our four companies - Bullfrog Films, California
Newsreel, First Run/Icarus Films, and Women Make Movies - have been working
together on a number of fronts related to the evolution of the film
distribution in general and our companies in particular, and the evolving
use of Digital Video, with a current focus (for us) on Higher Education.

In light of that we want to add (jointly) to this exchange, to say for the
record that none of our companies will accept CDIGIX's argument (which we
have been told they have put to some of our customers), and we urge you not
to either. It is wrong as a matter of law (and we will protect our and our
filmmakers' rights), and it would not make sense for any of us to continue
to do business with any institution which accepts their position.

However, if you wish to digitize and stream or make available over networks
etc. any of our titles currently in your collections, or wish to acquire
digital files or streaming rights to any new films, all four of our
companies are ready to work with you to make that possible.

And, as our plans and yours develop, we look forward to doing so.

Sincerely,


Jonathan Miller

On behalf of:
        Bullfrog Films: www.bullfrogfilms.com
        California Newsreel: www.newsreel.org
        First Run/Icarus Films: www.frif.com
        Women Make Movies: www.wmm.com



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
[ mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Handman
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:14 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Streaming Videos from the Collection

The TEACH act has nothing whatsoever to do with digitizing standing
collections of materials or even digitizing whole works for short-term
on-demand transmission (i.e. reserves). TEACH supports the digital delivery
of portions of works in the context of SYCHRONOUS teaching (i.e. I'm
teaching a class in Berkeley and New York simultaneously via distance
technologies and what to show a portion of a video to both)

And yes yes yes, it is my opinion (the opinion of a librarian not a lawyer)
that one would need a license to digitize and deliver a copyrighted
work.  CDIGIX contends that their lawyers say
otherwise.  Remember:  they're not the ones who would be hauled into court
for infringement.

Gary


At 07:38 PM 6/17/2007, you wrote:
>So...is it the opinion that it is necessary to obtain additional licensing
>to digitize titles already in one's collection in order to provide it for
>reserve-type purposes via something like CDIGIX?  They seem to be taking
>the position it is o.k. under the TEACH act.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>
>Gary Handman wrote:
>>Thanks God for a discussion thread NOT about copyright...
>>OK...here's my 2.5 cents (damn, I miss the cents key on the keyboard!):
>>I did a LOT of talking with CDIGIX last year...went to a little
>>brainstorming session they hosted in Baltimore.  My final take on the
>>company is that, while the product and service they're offering may suit
>>reserve-type viewing (i.e. point-of-need digitization and short-term
>>retention), CDIGIX is largely not geared to supporting the long-term,
>>on-going needs of standing collections.   If all you're doing is
>>responding to the need to temporarily put up requested titles, the CDIGIX
>>route may work just swell; if, on the otherhand, you're considering
>>building "standing" digital collections, I don't think they work very
>>well.  Like a number of other 3rd party solutions, the CDIGIX route is
>>predicated on wrapping content tightly in a Digital Rights Management
>>shell which requires specifying a particular time frame (and, I seem to
>>recall, a strictly delineated client base).  It's a model that's better
>>suited for entertainment delivery than library collection development and
>>management, in my opinion.  Although I think you CAN somehow set the DRM
>>specifications to open-ended, I seem to recall that it's somewhat of a
>>pain to do so.
>>Here's what we've finally decided to do here (and it's probably not for
>>everyone):  We've recently purchased a Digital Rapids encoding unit which
>>will allow us to do in-house digitization to our specifications.
>>After months and months and months of agonizing about standards, I've
>>finally bitten the bullet and thrown in my hat in the...gulp...Microsoft
>>ring:  we're gonna digitize for Windows Media and deliver over a Windows
>>streaming server.  Our systems guys are staunchly anti-Mac, which pains
>>me greatly, but there's not much I can do at the moment.  If they
>>weren't, I'd probably be encoding to QuickTime.  We'll probably transcode
>>the stuff we license into MPG2 or 4, so if we change our minds about
>>delivery standards in the future, we can easily recrank the stuff.
>>So, how this will work:  we will license appropriate content (Bullfrog,
>>California Newsreel et al),  We've just gotten a small grant to support
>>four very large survey classes that have asked us to put up video
>>(fortunately, most of the stuff they've asked for is licenseable).  We
>>will encode to Windows Media and serve out from our server.  The
>>materials will be made available to all UCB-authenticated users, on
>>campus and off.   For stuff available as "ready-made" Windows Media
>>digital files (e.g. Films Media and PBS), we'll buy these and mount
>>them.   For the stuff we've encoded, the classes will embed links to the
>>files in the course learning management system.  We will also fully
>>catalog the titles and include links to the video files in our OPAC, as
>>well as in the MRC web site.
>>In the long run, one of the most challenging decisions for ANYONE getting
>>into this business of VOD in ANY form will be how to decide what to
license.
>>As I've written earlier on videolib, there is often a fairly wide
>>disjuncture between what is actually being used or requested and what is
>>available for digital rights licensing.  The bottom line at Berkeley is
>>that what's used most in classrooms (movies) is currently out of reach as
>>far as digital delivery.  On the other hand, licensing ONLY those items
>>which are immediately needed to support curriculum has its drawbacks,
>>too, in terms of long-term collection development needs.
>>We also intend to begin digitizing stuff for which we believe we have
>>Section 108 preservation rights.  These will be limited to building-level
>>IP addresses (although, if I were putting my money where my mouth is (cf
>>my recent diatribes on videolib re 108 rights), I'd make these more
>>broadly available to UC users both on campus and off.  I'm still too
>>chicken to do this, I think.
>>I've decided to go the DIY route for a number of reasons:  it's clear to
>>me that remote access to video via remote vendor's server simply isn't
>>satisfactory in terms of image resolution and size and network
>>efficiency.  I really like Films Media's little front end (which allows
>>the user to define clip sequences and to create learning objects), but
>>the image via FM's server just doesn't make it.
>>We're doing the encoding in-house because, frankly, our Library Systems
>>Office is clueless and unwilling or incapable of taking this on.  Campus
>>computing and our Educational Technology guys are similarly completely
>>out of the question in terms of economics, willingness, and corporate
>>culture.  So...we're biting the bullet and trying it ourselves.
>>We get the hardware in a few weeks.  Stay tuned.
>>Gary
>>
>>At 08:12 AM 6/12/2007, you wrote:
>>>I've been talking to CDIGIX about licensing some of our videos to stream
>>>out and authenticate through Blackboard.
>>>
>>>QUESTION: What are your experiences with streaming videos from your
>>>collection, other vendors, any thoughts or comments on this topic will
>>>be great appreciated.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Chuck McCann
>>>Dept. Head, Digital Media Center
>>>Florida State Libraries
>>>"Ask A Media Librarian" AIM account/e-mail: cmccann@mailer.fsu.edu
>>> http://www.lib.fsu.edu/dlmc/dmc
>>>850.644.3094 or 850.644.5924
>>>
>>>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>>>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
>>>of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>>producers and distributors.
>>Gary Handman
>>Director
>>Media Resources Center
>>Moffitt Library
>>UC Berkeley
>>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
>>presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>--Guy Debord
>>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
>>of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>producers and distributors.
>
>--
>Mark D. Gooch
>Technology and Government Information Librarian
>The College of Wooster Libraries
>1140 Beall Avenue
>Wooster, Ohio 44691
>Phone: 330/263-2522
>FAX: 330/263-2253
>mgooch@wooster.edu
>AIM: mgooch90
>Yahoo! IM: mgooch1
>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>producers and distributors.

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life
presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."

--Guy Debord

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
distributors.


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."

--Guy Debord

--=====================_518282203==.ALT--

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.