RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

Brock, Shawn (Shawn.Brock@aetn.com)
Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:27:49 -0400

Good point on videolib as the reasonable man argument ... Hadn't thought
of that but it would be interesting to watch if it ever had to play out.

-Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Handman
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:15 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

And I agree with you, Shawn...mostly.

First...as we've implied in these conversations today, this is a legal
issue only insofar as it involves contractual agreements for purchase
and
use. Has nothing to do with copyright WHATSOEVER. And, like you, I
don't
think it's really an ethical issue, either.

Thing is...the legalities surrounding purchase and use of video are only
a
little more nailed down or defined now than they were 20 years ago. And
at
the dawn of digital delivery, much of the little we knew before is
likely
to be rendered completely obsolete.

I think that, as a community of practitioners, the videolib community
(and
other librarians not on the list) is, in a sense, helping define common
and
reasonable practice. I think pointing to this shared understanding and
practice might very well be useful if things ever came to cases. I also

think that it's our role to define practice and policy and to advise
administrators in such issues...not vice versa...it's what we get paid
to
do as professionals (or least, it should be)

Gary

At 02:25 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote:
>Totally agree, Gary. Except asking videolib for legal advice on what
>you think might be a legal issue certainly wouldn't protect you if what

>you do comes back to bite you or the institution. Let's face it, the
>question wasn't really asked simply because Mike's conscience bothered
>him; I'm sure Mike is perfectly capable of deciding his own personal
>moral dilemmas without relying on us. So asking the head guy or gal to

>check with your legal advisor or having them make the final decision?
>That usually protects you.
>
>Now videolib as an educational and informative source? I learn
>something new on every conversation strand ....
>
>-Shawn
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Handman
>Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:10 PM
>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?
>
>
>er...uh...ask our administrators? That's like asking an institutional
>lawyer if a particularly nebulous use of moving image materials meets
>the conditions of
>fair use. They'll say NO, a priori... Library administrators
generally
>know
>NOTHING...NOTH-ING, about what's legal and what's not in terms of video
>acquisition or use. That's what they should be paying us, as
>professionals,
>to do: make informed decisions and to do the best we can for library
>collections and library users based on our best understanding of the
>law.
>
>Unless performance rights are actually required, tiered pricing is a
>commercial and contractual matter, not a legal (as in copyright) one.
>There really aren't
>that many decisions or quandaries involved. If a title is available in
>both
>home and institutional pricing from a single vendor, and if you're
>buying for a
>library or similar institutional collection, you pay the institutional
>price.
>If the title is available in the home video market and if performance
>rights
>aren't an issue...well, no ethics involved: you buy the home video
>version.
>What's unethical is, as I wrote previously, vendors foisting off higher
>prices
>under false premise that performance rights are needed whenever a title
>is
>purchased for institutional use.
>
>Gary
>
>
>
>
>Quoting "Brock, Shawn" <Shawn.Brock@aetn.com>:
>
> > Now that's an odd question, because in a sense we sometimes do. We
> > teach children to be polite, courteous, and to consider the feelings

> > of others before speaking their mind. Which will sometimes involve
> > saying things you don't really believe to make others feel better.
> > Some of us also lead by example and lie on our taxes about income,
> > to Blockbuster when that DVD is late, or to the police officer when
> > we're
>
> > caught violating minor traffic laws.
> >
> > Don't think about this as a question of ethics, because invariably
> > people in the position of Jonathan and I will say it's unethical
> > while
>
> > dozens of media specialists will insist it's completely okay. So
> > instead go by what is legal or illegal. In the end, that's your
> > main obligation to your employer -- doing your job well in a way
> > that doesn't create legal liability for them, not expanding the
> > collection as cheaply as possible but can blow up in their face.
> >
> > So I would recommend asking your administrators -- they'll tell you
> > what is legal or not, and also what they are willing to allow you to

> > do. In then end, you're better protected as an individual.
> >
> > Of course, you could simply just purchase from companies who offer
> > the
>
> > same price on their DVDs to consumers and libraries alike. I know
> > of at least one company who does that .....
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Shawn Brock
> > Manager, Education Sales
> > A&E Television/The History Channel
> > HistoryEducation.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan
> > Miller
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:01 PM
> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?
> >
> >
> > Do you teach your children to lie?
> > JM
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Miller, President
> > First Run/Icarus Films, Inc.
> > 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
> > Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA
> >
> > tel 1.718.488.8900
> > fax 1.718.488.8642
> > www.frif.com
> > jmiller@frif.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> > MichaelMay.5652831@bloglines.com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:37 PM
> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > Subject: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?
> >
> > Would it be illegal and/or unethical for a library to try to buy a
> > DVD
>
> > at a lower individual price rather than a higher institutional
> > price, for example by claiming that the DVD will be for individual
> > use only or by reimbursing an individual staff member for a DVD
> > purchased privately at an individual price, especially if the
> > library does not want PPR?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike in Dubuque
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of

> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It

> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > distributors.
> >
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of

> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It

> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > distributors.
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of

> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It

> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > distributors.
> >
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic

>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in

>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions,
>and video producers and distributors.
>
>VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic

>control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in

>libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
serve
>as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
of
>communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>producers and distributors.

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail, all of life

presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."

--Guy Debord

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.