RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

Brock, Shawn (Shawn.Brock@aetn.com)
Thu, 29 Mar 2007 18:24:15 -0400

Good question, Jonathan, but I think you missed Mike's implied point in
his question ("...especially if the library does not want PPR?"): if PPR
is removed why must he pay the higher price that includes PPR simply
because he is an institution?

For us, knowing that not every institution needs PPR with their purchase
(as has been painfully brought to light via videolib) we don't raise our
price for all to accommodate the few (we've found that a very small
percentage of our customers consistently need these rights for all the
titles they purchase). Our economics are different, so instead we
handle those requests on a one-off basis. In many cases, as part of our
'empowering educators' program we grant those rights for free.
Sometimes, for extensive usage there is a negotiated fee attached based
on all the particulars of the given usage.

It's worth mentioning that not all producers (as opposed to
distributors) can afford to do this economically, even though they would
like to. Fortunately we can, because our programs also air on two of
the most popular basic cable networks on television, so generate revenue
in ways non-aired content can't. For us, this is one of the ways we
give back to the education community in exchange for watching our
networks and buying our DVDs. We also give back by way of grants,
community and educational outreach projects, town hall meetings, Cable
in the Classroom, and at times free PPR and content usage.

And of course, we're not above making a buck once in awhile by making
special offers on DVDs at a slight margin :)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:17 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

I would be interested to know if A&E's consul would state for the record
that videos purchased from them come with actual "Public Performance
Rights?" Can they be shown, e.g. in an auditorium that is open to the
public and advertised, does A&E clear all those rights when they produce
e.g. a Biography episode?
JM

Jonathan Miller, President
First Run/Icarus Films, Inc.
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA

tel 1.718.488.8900
fax 1.718.488.8642
www.frif.com
jmiller@frif.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Brock, Shawn
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:25 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

Totally agree, Gary. Except asking videolib for legal advice on what
you think might be a legal issue certainly wouldn't protect you if what
you do comes back to bite you or the institution. Let's face it, the
question wasn't really asked simply because Mike's conscience bothered
him; I'm sure Mike is perfectly capable of deciding his own personal
moral dilemmas without relying on us. So asking the head guy or gal to
check with your legal advisor or having them make the final decision?
That usually protects you.

Now videolib as an educational and informative source? I learn
something new on every conversation strand ....

-Shawn

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Gary Handman
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:10 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?

er...uh...ask our administrators? That's like asking an institutional
lawyer if
a particularly nebulous use of moving image materials meets the
conditions of
fair use. They'll say NO, a priori... Library administrators generally
know
NOTHING...NOTH-ING, about what's legal and what's not in terms of video
acquisition or use. That's what they should be paying us, as
professionals,
to do: make informed decisions and to do the best we can for library
collections and library users based on our best understanding of the
law.

Unless performance rights are actually required, tiered pricing is a
commercial
and contractual matter, not a legal (as in copyright) one. There really
aren't
that many decisions or quandaries involved. If a title is available in
both
home and institutional pricing from a single vendor, and if you're
buying for a
library or similar institutional collection, you pay the institutional
price.
If the title is available in the home video market and if performance
rights
aren't an issue...well, no ethics involved: you buy the home video
version.
What's unethical is, as I wrote previously, vendors foisting off higher
prices
under false premise that performance rights are needed whenever a title
is
purchased for institutional use.

Gary

Quoting "Brock, Shawn" <Shawn.Brock@aetn.com>:

> Now that's an odd question, because in a sense we sometimes do. We
> teach children to be polite, courteous, and to consider the feelings
> of others before speaking their mind. Which will sometimes involve
> saying things you don't really believe to make others feel better.
> Some of us also lead by example and lie on our taxes about income, to
> Blockbuster when that DVD is late, or to the police officer when we're

> caught violating minor traffic laws.
>
> Don't think about this as a question of ethics, because invariably
> people in the position of Jonathan and I will say it's unethical while

> dozens of media specialists will insist it's completely okay. So
> instead go by what is legal or illegal. In the end, that's your main
> obligation to your employer -- doing your job well in a way that
> doesn't create legal liability for them, not expanding the collection
> as cheaply as possible but can blow up in their face.
>
> So I would recommend asking your administrators -- they'll tell you
> what is legal or not, and also what they are willing to allow you to
> do. In then end, you're better protected as an individual.
>
> Of course, you could simply just purchase from companies who offer the

> same price on their DVDs to consumers and libraries alike. I know of
> at least one company who does that .....
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Shawn Brock
> Manager, Education Sales
> A&E Television/The History Channel
> HistoryEducation.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan
> Miller
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:01 PM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?
>
>
> Do you teach your children to lie?
> JM
>
>
> Jonathan Miller, President
> First Run/Icarus Films, Inc.
> 32 Court Street, 21st Floor
> Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA
>
> tel 1.718.488.8900
> fax 1.718.488.8642
> www.frif.com
> jmiller@frif.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> MichaelMay.5652831@bloglines.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:37 PM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: [Videolib] Buying at individual vs institutional price?
>
> Would it be illegal and/or unethical for a library to try to buy a DVD

> at a lower individual price rather than a higher institutional price,
> for example by claiming that the DVD will be for individual use only
> or by reimbursing an individual staff member for a DVD purchased
> privately at an individual price, especially if the library does not
> want PPR?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
>
> Mike in Dubuque
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>

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This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
control,
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
and
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
effective
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
producers and distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.