Re: [Videolib] Copying Books

Jessica Rosner (jrosner@kino.com)
Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:40:37 -0400

Well this would differ significantly from the argument being used to justify
dubbing a copy of out of print videos DVDs etc ( which again is at best
taking advantage of the vagueness in law meant for audio recordings) in
which all you allegedly need to do is find that a new copy is not available
at "reasonable" price thus almost encouraging folks to "lose" copies and
make another.

Slightly OT but related to the difficulty in Downloading EVER being
practical for institutional use. We are being told by many sales agents that
for allowing us the right to make a film available for download , they would
want a percentage equal to what they would get FOR A TELEVISION BROADCAST
which is at least double what they would get on DVD sale , making it to put
it mildly not terribly practical. Overseas rights holders are much more
difficult than domestic ones in part I suspect because copyright laws in
Europe in particular are much more rigid and they are justifiably freaked
out at new technologies

On 9/18/06 10:55 AM, "Karsten, Eileen" <karsten@lakeforest.edu> wrote:

> Jessica:
>
> You can make a photocopy of a book if you can not obtain a copy after a
> reasonable search. I can not remember if cost appears anywhere in the
> law. Our library will search for a year and if we can not find a copy,
> we will borrow the book and make a copy. We do not make copies of books
> that are available on the O.P. market because the price is too high,
> e.g. one Physics book comes to mind which was $600.00 on the O.P.
> market. I will admit I do not keep searching for a reprint. If one
> came on the market, the Library might not buy a replacement copy because
> we are not actively searching anymore.
>
> Eileen Karsten
> Head of Technical Services
> Lake Forest College
> Lake Forest, IL 60045
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:43 AM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS format
>
> Personally I expect it will be several years possibly a decade before
> You could not reasonably find a VHS player in the marketplace. There is
> just
> Too much stuff on VHS for players not be around even if somewhat used
>
> I guess my problem with this and the issue of dubbing titles that our
> lost
> or stolen is that I do genuinely see this as taking advantage of rights
> holders at least as far as feature films with known rights holders go
> The basic premise seems to be, I bought a copy of OLD YELLER on VHS in
> 1992
> And it has not yet made it to DVD but the copy was lost or damaged so I
> am
> going to borrow one from another library and copy it on to DVD.
> Ok this sounds extreme but it was it is being justified here and IF a
> studio
> cared a rat's ass about it they would go to court and win but they have
> bigger things on their mind. In the meantime small distributors like
> Kino
> which from time to time work very hard to rescue films that fell through
> the
> cracks ( Like the entire American Film Theater collection) face being
> screwed. Yes I am sure everyone promises to replace a dub with a new
> copy
> should it become available but in reality I can't count on that.
>
> I think the bottom line is that I don't see why once purchasing a
> feature
> film ( not some very rare independent film where you can't even find
> the
> rights holder) entitles you to always have a copy. I don't recall that
> you
> Get to make copies of books that get lost , damaged or stolen and are
> out of
> print. As presented here from time to time it seems as if there would be
> an
> INCENTIVE to "lose" a film because heck you could then justify dubing
> another copy onto DVD.
>
> I doubt this kind of thing is remotely wide spread but it is thought
> behind
> that I find so disturbing.
>
> On 9/18/06 8:31 AM, "clarkjc@jmu.edu" <clarkjc@jmu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Regarding the obsolescence of the VHS format--so far as
>> interpreting copyright law is concerned--one of the most
>> important benchmarks, as with fair use factors, is in the
>> commercial realm.
>>
>> I don't think any format can safely be considered "obsolete"
>> until current model players are no longer available for sale
>> in the marketplace. Note that this doesn't mean--as in the
>> vague wording of sec. 108 for libraries, talking about "unused
>> copies" of programming--that if you can still buy an
>> old-stock, unused player (even if it's not a current year's
>> model release) this counts toward not making the format obsolete.
>>
>> I just checked Circuit City. There are still offered about an
>> even dozen models of VHS VCRs or combo players with VCRs.
>>
>> The sole manufacturer of the cassette carriage in VCRs has
>> ceased production by now, I understand. So it won't be long
>> before there are no new yearly models of players released.
>> Then we'll start seriously talking about obsolete--instead of
>> just inconvenient....
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:36:05 -0400
>>> From: jrosner@kino.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] VHS format
>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>
>>> I actually meant it in LEGAL terms in that there is no reason
>>> for calling it "obsolete" as a justification for being able
>> to dub
>>> a VHS to DVD or other format in the Copyright section which gives
>>> libraries some ability to preserve material which is damaged
>> and can not
>>> be replaced. There is in fact a specific defination but I
>> can't look it
>>> up at home right now but it has to do with the idea that
>> there is basically
>>> no equipment available on which to play the dying format. So
>> while one
>>> can certainly claim that old Beta format tape may be an
>> obsolete format
>>> I think it will a long time before you wont have equipment on
>> which to
>>> play a VHS
>>>
>>> As a practical matter it is very inconvenient but not dead format
>>> Kino probably has at least 100 titles in VHS only. Our
>> choices are
>>> to keep them around in VHS or discontinue them completely because
>>> we could not possibly justify the cost of making them
>> available on DVD
>>> We choose to keep them in print which is in fact somewhat
>> unusual for
>>> feature films. I think libaries should ALWAYS keep VHS copies
>> of anything
>>> they do not currently have in DVD as there are a LOT of
>> titles that may
>>> never make dvd
>>>
>>> Quoting Herownword@aol.com:
>>>
>>>> Jessica, I'm very intrigued with your comment that VHS is
>> not an obsolete
>>>> format and won't be for a long time. What's your evidence
>> for/experience
>>>> with
>>>> this? Who is still using VHS? I recently (June '06)
>> converted all 16 of my
>>>>
>>>> Women in Nontraditional Careers titles from VHS to DVD and
>> am continuing to
>>>> make the VHS format available (might as well, at least
>> until my inventory is
>>>>
>>>> gone, was my original thinking). It's only been three
>> months, but so far,
>>>> given the choice, not one single customer has chosen VHS
>> over DVD. Not one.
>>>> I
>>>> do still sell some VHS of my Women's History, Literature,
>> & Art series that
>>>> are still available only in VHS. I'm curious if you meant
>> that preexisting
>>>> VHS dubs will continue to be used until they wear out or
>> that titles that
>>>> are
>>>> available only in VHS will still sell to reluctant
>> customers who would
>>>> really
>>>> rather buy DVD if it were available or if you still see
>> people who prefer
>>>> VHS
>>>> (and, if so, what their rationale is). Thanks for any
>> insight and I'd love
>>>> to hear from others on the list about this issue, too.
>>>>
>>>> Jocelyn Riley
>>>> HerOwnWords.com
>>>> NontraditionalCareers.com
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively
>> discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of
>> current and evolving video formats in libraries and related
>> institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
>> effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>> channel of communication between libraries,educational
>> institutions, and video producers and distributors.
>>
>> ===========
>> Jeff Clark
>> Director
>> Media Resources MSC 1701
>> James Madison University
>> Harrisonburg VA 22807
>> clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
>> 540-568-6770 (phone)
>> 540-568-7037 (fax)
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control,
>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and
>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> effective
>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication
>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>> distributors.
>
>
>
> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>
> Jessica Rosner
> Kino International
> 333 W 39th St. 503
> NY NY 10018
> jrosner@kino.com
> 212-629-6880
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.

Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE

Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.