Re: [Videolib] Would like your thoughts on this one

Susan Albrecht (albrechs@wabash.edu)
Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:27:24 -0400

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Well, guys, let me just announce who it is. Not sure if they have a
representative here in the group, but I seem to recall they
do. (Larry?) It's California Newsreel, and I have always enjoyed
doing business with them, and it would be rather hard for me to NOT
do business with them since their films are popular with several of
our profs.

So... I guess not surprisingly... I'm getting mixed feedback. Some
are saying "This is ridiculous and we should challenge them" and
others are saying "Well, if it pops up & you click 'OK' then you're
agreeing to their terms." Sigh.

How 'bout my pointing out that the disclaimer they issue states
"videocassette" and I was in fact going to purchase the DVD? I still
kinda like that one as a way around it. :))

And yeah, Jessica, I've had it happen before (with a diff. company)
that they called me when I tried to place an order for home use video
w/ my college credit card and told me they could not complete the
order. In that case, I just logged back on their site, used my
personal credit card, had it shipped to my home addy, then got
reimbursed by the college. Illegal? I don't think
so. Unethical? I don't think so. In that case there wasn't any
"contract" situation; they just didn't want to sell a video labelled
home use to someone at an institution, and I thought that was
balderdash since I was purchasing for library use.

I'm still thinking this one over, so keep those thoughts rolling in,
if you would!

Susan, who guesses if Newsreel.org has a rep here, the
"videocassette" language will shortly be changed to "videocassette or disc."

At 12:03 PM 9/14/2006, you wrote:
>Seems this is a contractual (not a legal) situation: the company is
>putting forward conditions for sale and use and the user, in buying,
>agrees to the contact. The whole HOME VIDEO issue is just a weird
>smokescreen...
>
>I wouldn't do business with these guys, or if I did, I read em the
>riot act before I did.
>
>Gary Handman
>
>
>At 08:36 AM 9/14/2006, Jessica wrote:
>>Any legal tape can be used for legitimate classroom instruction (
>>as opposed to an open showing on campus)
>>Just curious is the company in question the sole provider of said items
>>Actually they must be given that they can put a disclaimer on the
>>DVD so I guess the manufactuar it themselves
>>
>>The only "trick" will be that I assume you will have to get someone
>>else to make the purchase as they would be
>>Likely to reject one coming from them.
>>
>>There is however one BIG problem if they REQUIRE you to agree in
>>order to purchase the title. For instance if you are ordering on
>>line and up pops
>>Something that says " you agree to abide by our terms and
>>conditions" and it lists the restriction it would
>>In fact become a contract and a contract WOULD trump copyright law
>>
>>Basically if the seller REQUIRES the buyer to "sign" off in some
>>way they can add these restrictions
>>They could also say that you couldn't show it on Sundays IF they
>>put it in the contract and you
>>Signed it , either on the internet or on an order form
>>
>>You should do whatever you can to AVOID signing something but if it
>>is required you are kind of
>>screwed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 9/14/06 10:18 AM, "Susan Albrecht" <albrechs@wabash.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Hey, everyone.
>>I'd love to know what you all think of this. A well-respected (by
>>me, too!) company from whom I've purchased many times in the past
>>has always had a distinction between college/corporate use and
>>public library/high school use in its pricing. This I know is
>>their perogative, because it's simple price tiering with no kind of
>>claim made about usage needs.
>>However. Now there is a "home video" option at, not surprisingly,
>>a lower price yet. Here's the warning one gets when one puts such
>>an item in one's cart:
>>
>>HOME VIDEO - program comes with a warning against classroom use
>>periodically during the program - more information
>>The "more information" link provides this:
>>
>>Home video purchasers may use the videos in non-institutional
>>contexts only. At two points during home video videocassettes
>>script will appear over the image stating that this videocassette
>>has been purchased for home use only and may not be used in class,
>>circulated in an institutional library or be exhibited to the general public.
>>
>>Now, I just don't think this can be done. Once a "home use" option
>>has been offered up, it's fair game for libraries whose collections
>>are used only for 1) individual checkout or 2) classroom use. WE
>>DON'T NEED PPR in our case, because this will be used in only those
>>two ways I've just mentioned, and we are COVERED by the
>>face-to-face teaching exemption. Or is the insertion of this
>>script in the video supposed to act as a "contract" between seller & buyer?
>>
>>Am I wrong to feel justified in purchasing the "Home Video" option?
>>Susan at Wabash College

Susan Albrecht
Acquisitions Coordinator
Wabash College Lilly Library
Crawfordsville, IN
x6216
albrechs@wabash.edu

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."--Neil Peart
*********************************************************************************

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Well, guys, let me just announce who it is.  Not sure if they have a representative here in the group, but I seem to recall they do.  (Larry?)  It's California Newsreel, and I have always enjoyed doing business with them, and it would be rather hard for me to NOT do business with them since their films are popular with several of our profs. 

So... I guess not surprisingly... I'm getting mixed feedback.  Some are saying "This is ridiculous and we should challenge them" and others are saying "Well, if it pops up & you click 'OK' then you're agreeing to their terms."  Sigh. 

How 'bout my pointing out that the disclaimer they issue states "videocassette" and I was in fact going to purchase the DVD?  I still kinda like that one as a way around it. :))

And yeah, Jessica, I've had it happen before (with a diff. company) that they called me when I tried to place an order for home use video w/ my college credit card and told me they could not complete the order.  In that case, I just logged back on their site, used my personal credit card, had it shipped to my home addy, then got reimbursed by the college.  Illegal?  I don't think so.  Unethical?  I don't think so.  In that case there wasn't any "contract" situation; they just didn't want to sell a video labelled home use to someone at an institution, and I thought that was balderdash since I was purchasing for library use.

I'm still thinking this one over, so keep those thoughts rolling in, if you would!

Susan, who guesses if Newsreel.org has a rep here, the "videocassette" language will shortly be changed to "videocassette or disc."


At 12:03 PM 9/14/2006, you wrote:

Seems this is a contractua= l (not a legal) situation:  the company is putting forward conditions for sale and use and the user, in buying, agrees to the contact.   The whole HOME VIDEO issue is just a weird smokescreen...

I wouldn't do business with these guys, or if I did, I read em the riot act before I did.

Gary Handman


At 08:36 AM 9/14/2006, Jessica wrote:
Any= legal tape can be used  for legitimate classroom instruction ( as opposed to an open showing on campus)
Just curious is the company in question the sole provider of said items
Actually they must be given that they can put a disclaimer on the DVD so  I guess the manufactuar it themselves

The only =93trick=94 will be that I assume you will have to get someone e= lse to make the purchase as they would be
Likely to reject one coming from them.

There is however one BIG problem if they REQUIRE you to agree in order to purchase the title. For instance if you are ordering on line and up pops
Something that says =93 you agree to abide by our terms and conditions=94= and it lists the restriction it would
In fact become a contract and a contract WOULD trump copyright law

Basically if the seller REQUIRES the buyer to =93sign=94 off in some way = they can add these restrictions
They could also say that you couldn=92t show  it on Sundays IF they put it in the contract and you
Signed it , either on the internet or on an order form

You should do whatever you can to AVOID signing something but if it is required you are kind of
screwed




On 9/14/06 10:18 AM, "Susan Albrecht" <albrechs@wabash.edu> wrote:

Hey, everyone.
I'd love to know what you all think of this.  A well-respected (by me, too!) company from whom I've purchased many times in the past has always had a distinction between college/corporate use and public library/high school use in its pricing.  This I know is their perogative, because it's simple price tiering with no kind of claim made about usage needs.
However.  Now there is a "home video" option at, not surprisingly, a lower price yet.  Here's the warning one gets when one puts such an item in one's cart:

HOME VIDEO - program comes w= ith a warning against classroom use periodically during the program - more information
The "more information" link provides this:

Home video purchasers may us= e the videos in non-institutional contexts only. At two points during home video videocassettes script will appear over the image stating that this videocassette has been purchased for home use only and may not be used in class, circulated in an institutional library or be exhibited to the general public.

Now, I just don't think this can be done.  Once a "home use" option has been offered up, it's fair game for libraries whose collections are used only for 1) individual checkout or 2) classroom use.  WE DON'T NEED PPR in our case, because this will be used in only those two ways I've just mentioned, and we are COVERED by the face-to-face teaching exemption.  Or is the insertion of this script in the video supposed to act as a "contract" between seller & buyer?

Am I wrong to feel justified in purchasing the "Home Video" option?
Susan at Wabash College

Susan Albrecht
Acquisitions Coordinator
Wabash College Lilly Library
Crawfordsville, IN
x6216
albrechs@wabash.edu

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"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."--Neil Peart
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