RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright[Scanned]

jrosner@kino.com
Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:06:41 -0400

Ok works for me
Thanks for the research

Quoting Mark Kopp <mkopp@iu08.org>:

> I dunno...seems pretty clear to me...
> From: Congressional Record, October 14, 1984
>
> Guidelines for Off-Air Taping for Educational Purposes
> (Kastenmeier Guidelines)
>
> 1. The Guidelines were developed to appy only to off-air recording by
> non-profit educational institutions.
>
> 2. A broadcast program (including cable programs) may be recorded
> off-air and retained by a non-profit educational institution for a
> period not to exceed the first forty-five (45) consecutive calendar days
> after the date of recording.
>
> 3. Off-air recording may be used once by individual teachers in the
> course of relevant teaching activities, and repreated once only when
> instructional reinforcement is necessary in classrooms and similar
> places devoted to instruction within a single building, cluster, or
> campus, as well as in the homes of students receiving formalized home
> instruction, during the first ten (10) consecutive schools days in the
> forty-five (45) day calendar day retention period. "School days" are
> school session days--not couting weekends, holidays, vacations,
> examination periods, or other scheduled interruptions--within the
> forty-five (45) calendar day retention period.
>
> 4. Off-air recordings may be made only at the request of and used by
> individual teachers, and may not be regularly recorded in anticipation
> of requests. No broadcast program may be recorded off-air more than once
> at the request of the same teacher, regardless of the number of times
> the program may be broadcast.
>
> 5. A limited number of copies may be reproduced from each off-air
> recording to meet the legitimate needs of teachers under these
> guidelines. Each additional copy shall be subject to all provisions
> governing the original recording.
>
> 6. After the first ten (10) consecutive schools days, off-air recordings
> may be used up to the end of the forty-five (45) calendar day retention
> period only for teacher evaluation purposes. i.e., to determine whether
> or not to include the broadcast program in the teaching curriculum, and
> may not be used in the recording institution for student exhibition or
> any other non-evaluation purpose without authorization.
>
> 7. Off-air recordings need not be used in their entirety, but the
> recorded programs may not be altered from their original content.
> Off-air recordings may not be physically or electonically combined or
> merged to constitute teaching anthologies or compilations.
>
> 8. All copies of off-air recordings must include the copyright notice on
> the broadcast program as recorded.
>
> 9. Educational institutions are expected to establish appropriate
> control procedures to maintain the integrity of these guidelines.
>
> Congressional Record, October 14, 1984
>
>
> Mark W. Kopp
> Technology Assistant
> IT Department
> Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
> 4500 6th Avenue
> Altoona, PA 16602
> P: 814-940-0223
> F: 814-949-0984
> C: 814-937-2802
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of jrosner@kino.com
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:47 PM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright[Scanned]
>
> Michael & Company
> I guess I am just about to lose it on this one.
> An off air copy is NOT legal and "fair use" has NOTHING to do with it. I
> am really getting tired of a small minority using anything to justify
> using program ,obtained in any manner because they are an educational
> instition and they want to.
> The previous poster used provisions of the section involving making a
> DUPLICATE OF LEGALLY OBTAINED copy if that copy is detiorating and a
> replacement is not avaialable and then MIXED it with "Fair Use"
> I really think it is pointless to go over the concept that EVERY case
> EVER involving "fair use" and every site, even academic ones explains
> that "fair use" involves when you can use a PORTION of a work as part of
> ANOTHER work ( Transformative) I know Gary and folks like to point out
> that "portion " is only a factor but we are dancing on the head of pin
> here. Find me ANY copyright lawyer up to and including the electronic
> frontier folks who believe that "fair use" would allow the use of an
> entire work let alone the entire work of an ILLEGAL COPY. Michael to
> answer your specific question as I pointed out earlier those guidlines
> were I imagine put in place to give educational institutions a little
> leeway to use what I suspect they thought of as educational related
> material for a short time but it is irrelevent because it is NOT in the
> copyright law and the copyright law ALWAYS requires material be a legal
> copy.
>
> Can we please,please have a little common sense here ( Gary???) If you
> want to make the arguement that "fair use" allows to use an entire work
> ( and show it to public audience per a previous thread) I suggest you
> get some legal back up but to argue that you can tape ANYTHING off air
> and is legal to use as long as you like is just nuts. Still no one has
> answered for me why you could not use dupes of off air copies sold on
> eBay etc. Tape every movie TCM runs that is not released and put in your
> collection etc.
>
> I think the arrogance that we just want to use what we want to use and
> if the rights holer has not made it legally available I am going to get
> it anyway I can is staggering. Basically you just obliterate copyright
> law and the rights of filmakers & distributors "Sorry bud your film was
> broadcast in 1995 on WOR and I got a copy from my cousin so I can use
> it"
>
> Ok that really is IT for me. I AM on vacation and if you all really
> BELIEVE that you can tape anything you want off TV ( or buy a copy from
> someone who did) I am in the WRONG business.
>
>
>
> Quoting "Brewer, Michael" <brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>:
>
> > Jessica,
> >
> > I am just trying to understand the law here. I am working through it,
>
> > so please don't jump to any conclusions on my motives. It is simply
> > my way of investigating the question.
> >
> > I am just coming to terms with the fact that a copy can be legal for
> > certain purposes, and not for others. If the making of the copy is
> > done for fair use purposes, then the use of that copy, it seems, would
>
> > also always have to be limited to other purposes that fit within fair
> use.
> >
> > Of course, this seems obvious, but I had always considered a copy
> > either legal or illegal, not legal or illegal based on the context of
> its use.
> >
> >
> > In the section 108 scenario (film is excluded from this portion of
> > 108), the copy is clearly legal, but can, then, the owner of the copy
> > do whatever he/she wants with it? The burden is put on the
> > library/archive, rather than the owner, so it just isn't clear to me.
> >
> > mb
> >
> > Michael Brewer
> > Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian University of
> > Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055 Tucson, AZ
> > 85721
> > Voice: 520.307.2771
> > Fax: 520.621.9733
> > brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> > jrosner@kino.com
> > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:36 PM
> > To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > Subject: RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright
> >
> > Actually an "off air" copy is fact an illegal copy The "guidelines "
> > were presumably gesture of realism to allow teachers to use items
> > short term but it was NEVER agreed to by rights holders and as you are
>
> > all fond of pointing out has no official place in copyright law. The
> > Betamax decision was again VERY clear that taping was legal ONLY for
> > home/personal use.
> > The idea that you can tape someting off TV and just use it because
> > essentially it has not been released for your convenience by the
> > rights holder is totally absurd and makes a mockery of the entire
> > concept of a "legal copy". Under your theory this would extend to
> > bootleg copies sold on ebay IF they were taped of TV because heck does
>
> > it matter WHO taped them ?
> > Home made videos are NOT legal copies and I want to ask Michael if you
>
> > are anyone on the list seriously doubts that if this went to court, it
>
> > would if anything lead to elimination of the guidlines and prevent the
>
> > use of ANY off air item.
> >
> > Bascically what is going on here is an attempt to justify using
> > clearly illegal material because heck educatators ought to be able to
> > use anything they want and while you would LIKE to obtain it legally ,
>
> > you will get it anyway you can.
> >
> > I find it not only legally ridiculous but insulting to filmmakers,
> > distributors, actors etc and everyone else involved in works who would
>
> > expect LIBARIANS at least to respect copyright
> >
> >
> > Quoting "Brewer, Michael" <brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>:
> >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Cindy,
> > >
> > > I think it depends on how the photocopy was acquired. If a
> > > professor acquired a copy of an out of print book (and unavailable
> > > for purchase) through a library or archive that copied it for him
> under Section 108,
> > > then his further legal use of that copy should not pose any issues.
>
> > >
> > > It is true that 108 states that the library should not make a copy
> > > of
> > an
> > > entire work for a user if they have reason to believe it will be
> > > used for purposes other than research, scholarship & private study
> > purposes.
> > > However, that is for the library to worry about at the time the copy
> > was
> > > made. If the professor later decides he/she would like to put this
> > book
> > > on reserve (or do anything else with it that is legal), there is
> > nothing
> > > saying he/she can't. There is no license that comes with the item
> > saying
> > > it can only be used in a particular way.
> > >
> > > Additionally, is an off-air copy in fact an illegal copy? How can
> > > it
> > be
> > > a legal copy for a certain amount of time, and then suddenly
> illegal?
> > I
> > > don't think it is the copy that is illegal here (though I could be
> > wrong
> > > - I'd like to hear if others have more info on this). The question
> > is,
> > > is the use illegal.
> > >
> > > Anyone have more info on this one?
> > >
> > > mb
> > >
> > > Michael Brewer
> > > Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian University of
> > > Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055 Tucson, AZ
> > > 85721
> > > Voice: 520.307.2771
> > > Fax: 520.621.9733
> > > brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Badilla-Melendez, Cindy
> > > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:00 AM
> > > To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
> > > Subject: RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright
> > >
> > > Would you put on course reserve an entire book made on photocopy? I
> > > would not.
> > >
> > > We don't put on course reserve anything that is a illegal copy.
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Cindy Badilla-Melendez
> > > Media Resources Librarian
> > > O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
> > > University of St. Thomas
> > > phone (651) 962-5464
> > > fax (651) 962-5406
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rick Provine [mailto:provine@depauw.edu]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> > > To: ghandman@library.berkeley.edu; videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright
> > >
> > > i certainly wouldn't add it to the collection...but we are talking
> > about
> > > a personal copy on reserve...
> > >
> > > >>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu 7/28/2006 11:08:08 AM >>>
> > > yeah, I agree, Rick. Classroom use of stuff, OK, but the sticking
> > > point is whether long-term retention (for eg in a library
> > > collection) meets Fair Use tests...I personally don't think it does.
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > > At 06:59 AM 7/28/2006, you wrote:
> > > >I will take a stab at this one...
> > > >
> > > >Lets look at the Fair Use argument. Just becauise the off-air
> > > >guidelines exist, that doesn't mean you can't make a Fair Use case
> > > for
> > > >an off-air recording. This one seems compelling to me.
> > > >
> > > >- It is not commercially available (at any price, much less a
> > > >"reasonable" price)
> > > >- The impact on the original work is nil
> > > >- The purpose of the use is educational, and you are not making
> > > copies
> > > >or otherwise distributing
> > > >
> > > >The fact that the content is not available any other way, and there
> > > is
> > > >no other available means for the faculty member to utilize this
> > > content
> > > >for his course makes this a defensible fair use argument. If this
> > > were
> > > >a Disney title, who deliberately manipulates out-of-print periods
> > > >to increase market value, it might be different. There is a used
> > > >market and there are options to obtain legal copies.
> > > >
> > > >But where is the harm here relative to the educational value?
> > > >Education is not in and of itself the criteria for fair use, but it
> > is
> > > a
> > > >factor and, in this case, feels right to me. I would allow it in
> > > this
> > > >case.
> > > >
> > > >Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_____________________________
> > > >Rick Provine
> > > >Director of Libraries
> > > >DePauw University
> > > >11 East Larabee Street
> > > >Greencastle, IN 46135
> > > >provine@depauw.edu
> > > >office 765-658-4435
> > > >mobile 765-301-0262
> > > >fax 765-658-4445
> > > >
> > > > >>> cmhealy@waketech.edu 7/28/2006 9:25 AM >>>
> > > >OK,OK -
> > > >Wait one second here. I know copyright is murky and filled with
> > > >mere guidelines as opposed to rules and laws and I know that there
> > > >are no copyright police around to bust me, but one area I am
> > > >confident
> > > about
> > > >is off-air taping. It does not seem ambiguous that off-air tapes
> > > >are good for only a short time - 10 days ish - and then they have
> > > >to be destroyed.
> > > >
> > > >I am really surprised that at least two replies to my initial query
>
> > > >have suggested that this prof can go right on ahead and put a three
>
> > > >year old taped-from-TV show on reserve. I also know that copyright
> > > >law is constantly up for interpretation but this seems a clear
> > > >case. I don't think it even merits "a closer look". If this item
> > > >doesn't clearly violate copyright, I will turn in my jr. deputy
> > > >copyright cop badge and decoder ring for good and let things slide
> > > >which would make every single person I work with jump for joy.
> > > >
> > > >Those of you who are academic librarians who work directly with
> > > >media and who don't care to hedge you bets with "take another look"
>
> > > >or "probably" or "depending on the details", please state clearly
> > > >why
> > > you
> > > >would absolutely put this old home made tape on reserve.
> > > >
> > > >Ciara
> > > >
> > > > >>> notaro@stpt.usf.edu 7/28/2006 8:22 am >>>
> > > >
> > > > > FYI I have off air copies of THE GLITTERING PRIZES which PBS
> > > > > aired in the late 70s. It is considered to be one the best
> > > > > British series ever made. Never released in any format in any
> > > > > country Think I can loan out those puppies for classroom use ?
> > > >
> > > >Absolutely!
> > > >
> > > >Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
> > > >of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > > >acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>
> > > >and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions.
> > > >It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool
> > > >for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>
> > > >libraries,educational institutions, and
> > > video
> > > >producers and distributors.
> > > >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
> > > >of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > > acquisition,bibliographic
> > > >control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video
> > > >formats
> > > in
> > > >libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
> > > serve
> > > >as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
> > > channel
> > > >of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> > > video
> > > >producers and distributors.
> > > >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
> > > >of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > > >acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>
> > > >and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions.
> > > >It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool
> > > >for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>
> > > >libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > > distributors.
> > >
> > > Gary Handman
> > > Director
> > > Media Resources Center
> > > Moffitt Library
> > > UC Berkeley
> > > ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> > > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
> > >
> > > *****
> > >
> > > "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> > > all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation
> > > of spectacles."
> > > --Guy Debord
> > >
> > >
> > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>
> > > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic
> > > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
> > in
> > > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
> > serve
> > > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
> > channel
> > > of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> > > video producers and distributors.
> > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>
> > > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > > and evolving video formats in
> > libraries
> > > and
> > > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> > > effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> > communication
> > > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > > distributors.
> > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>
> > > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic
> > > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
> > in
> > > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
> > serve
> > > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
> > channel
> > > of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> > > video producers and distributors.
> > >
> > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues
> > > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> > control,
> > > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> > libraries and
> > > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> > effective
> > > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> > communication
> > > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> > > distributors.
> >
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
> >
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.