RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright

jrosner@kino.com
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:35:45 -0400

Actually an "off air" copy is fact an illegal copy
The "guidelines " were presumably gesture of realism to allow
teachers to use items short term but it was NEVER agreed to by rights holders
and as you are all fond of pointing out has no official place in
copyright law. The Betamax decision was again VERY clear that
taping was legal ONLY for home/personal use.
The idea that you can tape someting off TV and just use it
because essentially it has not been released for your convenience
by the rights holder is totally absurd and makes a mockery of the
entire concept of a "legal copy". Under your theory this would extend
to bootleg copies sold on ebay IF they were taped of TV because heck
does it matter WHO taped them ?
Home made videos are NOT legal copies and I want to ask Michael
if you are anyone on the list seriously doubts that if this went
to court, it would if anything lead to elimination of the
guidlines and prevent the use of ANY off air item.

Bascically what is going on here is an attempt to justify using
clearly illegal material because heck educatators ought to be able
to use anything they want and while you would LIKE to obtain it
legally , you will get it anyway you can.

I find it not only legally ridiculous but insulting to filmmakers,
distributors, actors etc and everyone else involved in works
who would expect LIBARIANS at least to respect copyright

Quoting "Brewer, Michael" <brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu>:

> All,
>
> Cindy,
>
> I think it depends on how the photocopy was acquired. If a professor
> acquired a copy of an out of print book (and unavailable for purchase)
> through a library or archive that copied it for him under Section 108,
> then his further legal use of that copy should not pose any issues.
>
> It is true that 108 states that the library should not make a copy of an
> entire work for a user if they have reason to believe it will be used
> for purposes other than research, scholarship & private study purposes.
> However, that is for the library to worry about at the time the copy was
> made. If the professor later decides he/she would like to put this book
> on reserve (or do anything else with it that is legal), there is nothing
> saying he/she can't. There is no license that comes with the item saying
> it can only be used in a particular way.
>
> Additionally, is an off-air copy in fact an illegal copy? How can it be
> a legal copy for a certain amount of time, and then suddenly illegal? I
> don't think it is the copy that is illegal here (though I could be wrong
> - I'd like to hear if others have more info on this). The question is,
> is the use illegal.
>
> Anyone have more info on this one?
>
> mb
>
> Michael Brewer
> Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
> University of Arizona Library A210
> 1510 E. University
> P.O. Box 210055
> Tucson, AZ 85721
> Voice: 520.307.2771
> Fax: 520.621.9733
> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> Badilla-Melendez, Cindy
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:00 AM
> To: 'videolib@lists.berkeley.edu'
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright
>
> Would you put on course reserve an entire book made on photocopy? I
> would
> not.
>
> We don't put on course reserve anything that is a illegal copy.
> __________________________________________________
> Cindy Badilla-Melendez
> Media Resources Librarian
> O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
> University of St. Thomas
> phone (651) 962-5464
> fax (651) 962-5406
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Provine [mailto:provine@depauw.edu]
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> To: ghandman@library.berkeley.edu; videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] off air recording and copyright
>
> i certainly wouldn't add it to the collection...but we are talking about
> a personal copy on reserve...
>
> >>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu 7/28/2006 11:08:08 AM >>>
> yeah, I agree, Rick. Classroom use of stuff, OK, but the sticking
> point is whether long-term retention (for eg in a library collection)
> meets Fair Use tests...I personally don't think it does.
>
> Gary
>
>
> At 06:59 AM 7/28/2006, you wrote:
> >I will take a stab at this one...
> >
> >Lets look at the Fair Use argument. Just becauise the off-air
> >guidelines exist, that doesn't mean you can't make a Fair Use case
> for
> >an off-air recording. This one seems compelling to me.
> >
> >- It is not commercially available (at any price, much less a
> >"reasonable" price)
> >- The impact on the original work is nil
> >- The purpose of the use is educational, and you are not making
> copies
> >or otherwise distributing
> >
> >The fact that the content is not available any other way, and there
> is
> >no other available means for the faculty member to utilize this
> content
> >for his course makes this a defensible fair use argument. If this
> were
> >a Disney title, who deliberately manipulates out-of-print periods to
> >increase market value, it might be different. There is a used market
> >and there are options to obtain legal copies.
> >
> >But where is the harm here relative to the educational value?
> >Education is not in and of itself the criteria for fair use, but it is
> a
> >factor and, in this case, feels right to me. I would allow it in
> this
> >case.
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >
> >_____________________________
> >Rick Provine
> >Director of Libraries
> >DePauw University
> >11 East Larabee Street
> >Greencastle, IN 46135
> >provine@depauw.edu
> >office 765-658-4435
> >mobile 765-301-0262
> >fax 765-658-4445
> >
> > >>> cmhealy@waketech.edu 7/28/2006 9:25 AM >>>
> >OK,OK -
> >Wait one second here. I know copyright is murky and filled with mere
> >guidelines as opposed to rules and laws and I know that there are no
> >copyright police around to bust me, but one area I am confident
> about
> >is off-air taping. It does not seem ambiguous that off-air tapes are
> >good for only a short time - 10 days ish - and then they have to be
> >destroyed.
> >
> >I am really surprised that at least two replies to my initial query
> >have suggested that this prof can go right on ahead and put a three
> >year
> >old taped-from-TV show on reserve. I also know that copyright law is
> >constantly up for interpretation but this seems a clear case. I don't
> >think it even merits "a closer look". If this item doesn't clearly
> >violate copyright, I will turn in my jr. deputy copyright cop badge
> >and
> >decoder ring for good and let things slide which would make every
> >single
> >person I work with jump for joy.
> >
> >Those of you who are academic librarians who work directly with media
> >and who don't care to hedge you bets with "take another look" or
> >"probably" or "depending on the details", please state clearly why
> you
> >would absolutely put this old home made tape on reserve.
> >
> >Ciara
> >
> > >>> notaro@stpt.usf.edu 7/28/2006 8:22 am >>>
> >
> > > FYI I have off air copies of THE GLITTERING PRIZES which PBS aired
> > > in the late 70s. It is considered to be one the best British
> > > series ever made. Never released in any format in any country
> > > Think I can loan out those puppies for classroom use ?
> >
> >Absolutely!
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >
> >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> >acquisition,bibliographic
> >control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
> >in
> >libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
> >serve
> >as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
> >channel
> >of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> video
> >producers and distributors.
> >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> acquisition,bibliographic
> >control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
> in
> >libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
> serve
> >as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
> channel
> >of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
> video
> >producers and distributors.
> >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> >acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> >and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> >is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> >video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> >libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> *****
>
> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
> spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries
> and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an
> effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.