RE: [Videolib] protest music[Scanned]

jrosner@kino.com
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:37:42 -0400

Fine if you ask them and they agree but the below seems to require a
fee and PBS never struck me as guys who give stuff away. It also
seems likely there are music rights issues with this program which
would prevent them from granting any use rights.
The statement below is vague at best but you can certainly ASK them
Keep in mind PBS does not OWN rights on much of what it broadcasts

However the REAL issue is that you can not tape stuff off air
and use it forever just because it has not been released on
VHS or DVD. Off air copies are NOT legal copies unless the rights
holder were to specifically grant you rights on them.

FYI I have off air copies of THE GLITTERING PRIZES which PBS aired
in the late 70s. It is considered to be one the best British
series ever made. Never released in any format in any country
Think I can loan out those puppies for classroom use ?

Quoting Mark Kopp <mkopp@iu08.org>:

> Here's how it would be different...directly from PBS...
>
> Thursday, July 27, 2006
>
> PBS and Extended Taping Rights
>
> PBS has consistently sought copyright agreements that will make its
> general-audience programming easier for educators to use in the
> classroom. Even before 1981, when the federal fair use guidelines for
> off-air videotaping were ratified for TV broadcasting, PBS had pioneered
> a seven-day school re-record rights policy, a policy that even today has
> features that are more generous than the federal guidelines.
>
> During the 1990s, PBS has worked to obtain greatly extended educational
> rights for the majority of its general-audience programs, both
> prime-time and children's programming. These efforts have involved
> negotiations with producers, other public television entities, PBS
> member stations, educators, various unions whose agreements govern many
> PBS productions, and other holders of program rights. As a result of
> these efforts, extended educational rights of a year or more for the
> majority of PBS prime-time and children's programs have been made
> available to preK-12 schools. Some 90 percent of PBS's prime-time,
> general-audience programming and close to 100 percent of PBS's children
> programming are now covered by extended rights and agreements.
>
> PBS's extended videotaping rights intend to provide a free preview of
> programming to give teachers adequate time to review videotapes,
> evaluate their appropriateness for classroom use, and either schedule
> that use or purchase program videotapes. But since these rights are
> negotiated on an individual basis with program producers and copyright
> owners, the effective length of the free preview may vary. In some
> cases, PBS has secured for teachers permission to use off-air recording
> for the life of the tape (in perpetuity). More commonly, however, the
> agreement covers a specified time period, sometimes three years but more
> frequently one year. The time period is usually defined from the date of
> the broadcast from which the recording was made, although sometimes it
> is defined from the date of the national, original broadcast on public
> television. On occasion there may be a fixed expiration date for the
> rights granted.
>
> See extended taping rights definitions for further details. Visit
> TeacherSource TV Listings for a list of television programs airing this
> month and the taping rights which apply to each program. Also note that
> certain conditions and obligations apply to all extended taping rights,
> regardless of the rights period.
>
> Teachers, educational institutions and others should consult an attorney
> with expertise in copyright law for advice relating to their specific
> circumstances and activities.
>
>
> Mark W. Kopp
> Technology Assistant
> IT Department
> Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
> 4500 6th Avenue
> Altoona, PA 16602
> P: 814-940-0223
> F: 814-949-0984
> C: 814-937-2802
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jessica Rosner
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:09 PM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] protest music[Scanned]
>
> Well I am leaving for vacation in an hour but perhaps you can explain
> how it would legally differ from A. A bootleg of title not available you
> just buy on eBay. B. Off air taping of a film on TCM ( or other TV
> station) that has not been released. C TV episodes of any old show If
> common sense does not tell you that legally you would be totally bitch
> slapped if you argued your right to tape this stuff and keep and use it
> indefinitely again please explain. The copy is not legal and you are
> using it. IF ANYTHING a studio could go to court and say the off air
> "guidelines"
> are illegal and you can NEVER use an off air tape in a class for ANY
> period The BetaMax decision was very clear that the key factor was that
> it was for HOME PERSONAL use ( and even that by slim one vote majority)
> Every part of the copyright law refers to "legally" obtained copies.
>
> I think we are back to the is anyone going to catch you argument No but
> then they probably would not catch you if you bought cheap pirate copies
> of any film and used it.
> Per the above do you SERIOUSLY believe you would have a legal leg to
> stand on IF it went to court and if so based on one part of copyright
> law or legal history ?
>
>
>
> On 7/27/06 11:50 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > There is NO formal copyright law covering off-air taping, Jessica.
> > The Kastenmeier Guidelines are only guidelines. Flat out illegal, it
> > ain't.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > At 08:26 AM 7/27/2006, you wrote:
> >> Actually it is flat out illegal , no better or worse than buying or
> >> using a pirate dupe of a feature film. The off air rules are if
> >> anything more specific on this and clearly state that you can only
> >> use something off air for Either 30 or 60 days ( I forget which). I
> >> think EVEN Gary will agree on this one because there is no grey area
> >> on this
> >>
> >> The ONLY thing the guy is right about is that there is ZERO chance
> >> PBS would give him permission to use it. I don't know of any MAJOR
> >> Rights holder that would, though I think some independent folks might
>
> >> Image to to contrary PBS is NOT noted for its generosity in this area
> >>
> >> One extra bit of irony is that it very well could be that it is not
> >> been released because they could not afford to clear the music as
> >> that is really, really expensive
> >>
> >> Anyway cope with the guy as best you can but again this is not A
> >> tough one, off air copies ARE illegal after the first period of use
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/27/06 11:02 AM, "M. Claire Stewart"
> >> <claire-stewart@northwestern.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How does this violate copyright? I agree that, generally speaking,
> >>> you don't want to go making permanent libraries of off-air
> >>> recordings. But if you have a faculty member who is legitimately
> >>> using this for teaching, isn't the problem rather that this use
> >>> pushes the boundaries of what may be generally accepted as
> >>> guidelines for use of off-air recordings and/or repetitive use for
> reserves?
> >>>
> >>> If so, maybe you could make an exception, since the case is
> >>> compelling, and it sounds as though you've looked and cannot find
> >>> the item available for purchase. My feeling is that guidelines are
> >>> there to create "no brainers" and when there is a case that exceeds
> >>> the guidelines, it doesn't mean the use can't be supported, but
> >>> rather that a more in-depth evaluation is necessary.
> >>>
> >>> Claire
> >>>
> >>>> Dear Vid Libbers,
> >>>>
> >>>> I have an instructor who insists on putting an item on reserve
> >>>> that violates copyright. I have offered his mother options (like
> >>>> getting a legit item to replace, writing to get permission,
> >>>> updating his tired
> >>>> class/syllabus) but he claims that there are no other videos like
> >>>> this one that he taped from the TV years ago. I would love to stump
>
> >>>> him and get as good if not a better title.
> >>>>
> >>>> The original show was "Get Up, Stand Up", a PBS production. The
> >>>> basic topic is protest music or music that accompanies social
> >>>> change movements or the intersection of music and protest - you
> >>>> get the picture. I think that a great punk music documentary fits
> >>>> the bill quite well, but something tells me that the instructor
> >>>> wants something exactly like "Get Up, Stand Up" and nothing else.
> >>>>
> >>>> (His point is that he should be allowed to put this taped-from-TV
> >>>> thing on reserve indefinitely because (a) he has before and (b) he
> >>>> needs it for his class. Hardly compelling, I know but I would like
>
> >>>> to get him a legit replacement so as to put an end to the two
> >>>> semester long wrangle. Apparently he has a crystal ball too and can
>
> >>>> see that PBS would never give him permission to have it on reserve
> >>>> or show it.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Could you all suggest some titles, especially if you are familiar
> >>>> with Get Up, Stand Up?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Ciara
> >>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion
> >>>> of issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> >>>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>
> >>>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions.
> >>>> It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool
> >>>> for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>
> >>>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> >>>> distributors.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
> >>
> >> Jessica Rosner
> >> Kino International
> >> 333 W 39th St. 503
> >> NY NY 10018
> >> jrosner@kino.com
> >> 212-629-6880
> >>
> >>
> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> >> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> >> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> >> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> >> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> >> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
> >
> > Gary Handman
> > Director
> > Media Resources Center
> > Moffitt Library
> > UC Berkeley
> > ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
> >
> > *****
> >
> > "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> > all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
> > spectacles."
> > --Guy Debord
> >
> >
> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
> > acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
> > and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
> > is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
> > video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
> > libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
>
>
>
> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>
> Jessica Rosner
> Kino International
> 333 W 39th St. 503
> NY NY 10018
> jrosner@kino.com
> 212-629-6880
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.