Re: [Videolib] protest music

Jessica Rosner (jrosner@kino.com)
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:09:11 -0400

Well I am leaving for vacation in an hour but perhaps you can explain how it
would legally differ from A. A bootleg of title not available you just buy
on eBay. B. Off air taping of a film on TCM ( or other TV station) that has
not been released. C TV episodes of any old show
If common sense does not tell you that legally you would be totally bitch
slapped if you argued your right to tape this stuff and keep and use it
indefinitely again please explain. The copy is not legal and you are using
it. IF ANYTHING a studio could go to court and say the off air "guidelines"
are illegal and you can NEVER use an off air tape in a class for ANY period
The BetaMax decision was very clear that the key factor was that it was for
HOME PERSONAL use ( and even that by slim one vote majority) Every part of
the copyright law refers to "legally" obtained copies.

I think we are back to the is anyone going to catch you argument
No but then they probably would not catch you if you bought cheap pirate
copies of any film and used it.
Per the above do you SERIOUSLY believe you would have a legal leg to stand
on IF it went to court and if so based on one part of copyright law or legal
history ?

On 7/27/06 11:50 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:

> There is NO formal copyright law covering off-air taping,
> Jessica. The Kastenmeier Guidelines are only guidelines. Flat out
> illegal, it ain't.
>
> Gary
>
> At 08:26 AM 7/27/2006, you wrote:
>> Actually it is flat out illegal , no better or worse than buying or using a
>> pirate dupe of a feature film. The off air rules are if anything more
>> specific on this and clearly state that you can only use something off air
>> for Either 30 or 60 days ( I forget which). I think EVEN Gary will agree on
>> this one because there is no grey area on this
>>
>> The ONLY thing the guy is right about is that there is ZERO chance
>> PBS would give him permission to use it. I don't know of any MAJOR
>> Rights holder that would, though I think some independent folks might
>> Image to to contrary PBS is NOT noted for its generosity in this area
>>
>> One extra bit of irony is that it very well could be that it is not
>> been released because they could not afford to clear the music as that
>> is really, really expensive
>>
>> Anyway cope with the guy as best you can but again this is not
>> A tough one, off air copies ARE illegal after the first period of use
>>
>>
>> On 7/27/06 11:02 AM, "M. Claire Stewart" <claire-stewart@northwestern.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does this violate copyright? I agree that, generally speaking,
>>> you don't want to go making permanent libraries of off-air
>>> recordings. But if you have a faculty member who is legitimately
>>> using this for teaching, isn't the problem rather that this use
>>> pushes the boundaries of what may be generally accepted as guidelines
>>> for use of off-air recordings and/or repetitive use for reserves?
>>>
>>> If so, maybe you could make an exception, since the case is
>>> compelling, and it sounds as though you've looked and cannot find the
>>> item available for purchase. My feeling is that guidelines are there
>>> to create "no brainers" and when there is a case that exceeds the
>>> guidelines, it doesn't mean the use can't be supported, but rather
>>> that a more in-depth evaluation is necessary.
>>>
>>> Claire
>>>
>>>> Dear Vid Libbers,
>>>>
>>>> I have an instructor who insists on putting an item on reserve that
>>>> violates copyright. I have offered his mother options (like getting a
>>>> legit item to replace, writing to get permission, updating his tired
>>>> class/syllabus) but he claims that there are no other videos like this
>>>> one that he taped from the TV years ago. I would love to stump him and
>>>> get as good if not a better title.
>>>>
>>>> The original show was "Get Up, Stand Up", a PBS production. The basic
>>>> topic is protest music or music that accompanies social change movements
>>>> or the intersection of music and protest - you get the picture. I think
>>>> that a great punk music documentary fits the bill quite well, but
>>>> something tells me that the instructor wants something exactly like "Get
>>>> Up, Stand Up" and nothing else.
>>>>
>>>> (His point is that he should be allowed to put this taped-from-TV
>>>> thing on reserve indefinitely because (a) he has before and (b) he needs
>>>> it for his class. Hardly compelling, I know but I would like to get him
>>>> a legit replacement so as to put an end to the two semester long
>>>> wrangle. Apparently he has a crystal ball too and can see that PBS would
>>>> never give him permission to have it on reserve or show it.)
>>>>
>>>> Could you all suggest some titles, especially if you are familiar with
>>>> Get Up, Stand Up?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ciara
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>>>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>>>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>>>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>>>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
>>>> distributors.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>> acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current
>> and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It
>> is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for
>> video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between
>> libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> *****
>
> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
> spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.

Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE

Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.