Re: [Videolib] Due diligence

Gary Handman (ghandman@library.berkeley.edu)
Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:18:17 -0700

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108 has nothing to do with performance (never said it did)

It occurs to me that it's increasingly easy for librarians (and
educators) to be totally cowed by threats, conjectures, rumors about
a cluster of ill-defined and misunderstood law. I think also that a
lot of cultural capital is being held hostage in the process...(as in
the case being cited here) This is NOT (NOT!) to downplay the
necessity of doing the right thing in terms of
compliance. Nonetheless, I think it's also important to go to bat
for fair use and to take some risk on behalf of broad access. It's
what librarians were born to do. If it were I, and if no money were
changing hands, I'd show the damn film and be done with it.

Gary

At 08:42 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>This may be so Gary but the question that started this was
>about showing a film to a to a public audience and in this case
>A feature film less than 20 years old which certainly is not without
>an owner though it may well have been caught up in legal
>Issues including bankruptcy. I don't think anything in 108 ever
>relates to public showings.
>
>
>On 6/1/06 11:17 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>OK...this is thin ice I'm skating on, but...
>
>I think the definition of and requirements for due diligence in
>relation to copyright is very likely bound to mean different things
>for different types of use and use contexts. Due diligence in
>relation to a library wishing to perform a copyrighted work or
>preserve it under Section 108 rights ain't the same as due diligence
>in relation to a filmmaker wishing to incorporate footage into another work.
>
>Gary
>
>
>At 05:21 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>Finding a holder of a copyright is not the hardest thing in the
>world to do. I can say this honestly because it's what I do for much
>of my work. It's like learning any job.
>
>There are several people who do this for a living who have been
>known to work at very reasonable prices. My guess is that due
>dilligence would be defined as hiring one of these specialists or
>paying Thompson & Thompson for a copyright search.
>
>Yes, sometimes it does take a long time. It took me fifteen years to
>find Elizabeth Rogers, the rights holder to People of the Wind, but
>I did it because I thought it worth it. If a filmmaker had to do
>this for a film in production, perhaps they'd use a still or a
>trailer instead -- or find another option. I'm facing many of these
>issues trying to clear the music rights (four years and running) for
>KILLER OF SHEEP.
>
>If anyone has seen Tony Buba's LIGHTNING OVER BRADDOCK (available at
>Zeitgeist), it has a wonderful scene where he has to consider
>whether he should pay $15,000 to CAMI for the rights to Jumpin' Jack
>Flash which is absolutely, positively necessary for the scene. His
>solution was FAR better than if he had paid for the rights.
>
>A greedy copyright holder is not THE obstacle to art or education --
>a lack of imagination is.
>
>Fan of the first place Mets,
>Dennis Doros
>Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero
>PO Box 128
>Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>Phone: 201.767.3117
>Fax: 201.767.3035
>milefilms@aol.com
>www.milestonefilms.com <http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>
>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
><http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> *****
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation
> of spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
>
>
>
>Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>
>Jessica Rosner
>Kino International
>333 W 39th St. 503
>NY NY 10018
>jrosner@kino.com
>212-629-6880

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

*****

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
spectacles."
--Guy Debord
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108 has nothing to do with performance (never said it did)

It occurs to me that it's increasingly easy for librarians (and educators) to be totally cowed by threats, conjectures, rumors about a cluster of ill-defined and misunderstood  law.  I think also that a lot of cultural capital is being held hostage in the process...(as in the case being cited here)  This is NOT  (NOT!) to downplay the necessity of doing the right thing in terms of compliance.  Nonetheless,  I think it's also important to go to bat for fair use and to take some risk on behalf of broad access.  It's what librarians were born to do. If it were I, and if no money were changing hands, I'd show the damn film and be done with it.

Gary


At 08:42 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:

Thi= s may be so Gary but the question that started this was about  showing a film to a  to a public audience and in this case
A feature film less than 20 years old which certainly is not without an owner though it may well have been caught up in legal
Issues including bankruptcy. I don=92t think anything in 108 ever relates to public showings.


On 6/1/06 11:17 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:

OK...this is thin ice I'm skating on, but...

I think the definition of and requirements for due diligence in relation to copyright is very likely bound to mean different things for different types of use and use contexts.  Due diligence in relation to a library wishing to perform a copyrighted work or preserve it under Section 108 rights ain't the same as due diligence in relation to a filmmaker wishing to incorporate footage into another work. 

Gary


At 05:21 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
Finding a holder of a copyright is not the hardest thing in the world to do. I can say this honestly because it's what I do for much of my work. It's like learning any job.

There are several people who do this for a living who have been known to work at very reasonable prices. My guess is that due dilligence would be defined as hiring one of these specialists or paying Thompson & Thompson for a copyright search.

Yes, sometimes it does take a long time. It took me fifteen years to find Elizabeth Rogers, the rights holder to People of the Wind, but I did it because I thought it worth it. If a filmmaker had to do this for a film in production, perhaps they'd use a still or a trailer instead -- or find another option. I'm facing many of these issues trying to clear the music rights (four years and running) for KILLER OF SHEEP.

If anyone has seen Tony Buba's LIGHTNING OVER BRADDOCK (available at Zeitgeist), it has a wonderful scene where he has to consider whether he should pay $15,000 to CAMI for the rights to Jumpin' Jack Flash which is absolutely, positively necessary for the scene. His solution was FAR better than if he had paid for the rights.

A greedy copyright holder is not THE obstacle to art or education -- a lack of imagination is.

Fan of the first place Mets,
Dennis Doros
Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero
PO Box 128
Harrington Park, NJ 07640
Phone: 201.767.3117
Fax: 201.767.3035
milefilms@aol.com
www.milestonefilms.com < http://www.milestonefilms.com >


Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

  < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > *****

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
           all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
            &= nbsp; --Guy Debord





Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
 
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

*****

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
           all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
            &= nbsp;  --Guy Debord

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VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.