Re: [Videolib] Due diligence

Jessica Rosner (jrosner@kino.com)
Thu, 01 Jun 2006 20:07:02 -0400

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Ok Gary then tell me why in the entire history of FU has it ALWAYS been
legally interpreted as being right to INCORPORATE something into another
work.
The legal term is in fact =B3transformative=B2 FU has in every case been used a=
s
right to TRANSFORM or USE something IN ANOTHER WORK
So to use clips, quotes etc IN ANOTHER work. It has never ever been used t=
o
allow a COMPLETE work by itself so yes in this case you are just making up
law. I don=B9t think even the most copyright hating lawyer/ artist would EVER
suggest
That =B3fair use=B2 can EVER and I mean ever be justified as a way of showing a
complete work under copyright

Find me any instance where this has been done or argued.

.

I will if you like get you quotes from =B3fair use=B2 cases which refer to is
=B3transformative=B2 nature

Seriously you KNOW that =B3fair use=B2 is intended and has developed as
limited right under certain circumstances to use
An otherwise copyrighted work as PART of another work.

Other than WANTING it to be otherwise and because frankly it sound nice , =
I
mean gee this should be
=B3Fair=B2 right ? How can you justify this.

Also going back as I seem to be the only one who wants to to the ORIGINAL
question , what the =B3F=B2 would =B3Fair use=B2 have to do
With showing this film ? The question was if you can=B9t basically afford to
track down a difficult to locate copyright holder , can you show the film
anyway? So please explain how this is remotely relevant ? Fair Use has
nothing what so ever do with a films copyright status
That much you can=B9t argue. So why does the fact that it is difficult to fin=
d
a copyright holder entitle you to claim some non existent
=B3fair use=B2 right to show a whole film

Again you are claiming the =B3right=B2 to show a copyrighted film to a public
audience in a free non profit setting is covered under =B3 Fair Use=B2 well i=
n
that case
EVERY film should be included why does it=B9s copyright status matter . If
conversely it it has to do with the fact that it is really
expensive to find the copyright holder where the hell does =B3fair use=B2 enter
into it ?

Again the reason I rant on this is that I have a lot of groups throw =B3fair
use=B2 =B3non profit=B2 =B3 No admission=B2 =B3only On campus=B2
And other crap when justifying showing one of our films without paying us.

The only difference between us and some company/lawyer in Hong Kong who own=
s
CHINESE GHOST STORY is that
we are paying attention ( as best we can).

I do understand your frustration with bullying IP owners but this is not a
case of that, merely of people who understandably
want to show a film they can=B9t clear. However there is just no right to sho=
w
something because you can=B9t afford to find the rights holder
( or they won=B9t grant you the rights).

> You're coming up with the Rosner Reading of FU, Jessica. There's nothing=
in
> the law itself or in case law that supports what you're saying. Some of =
this
> stuff is patently wrong. The only thing the law says about FU in terms o=
f
> portion used is that it's one of the considerations that needs to be weig=
hed
> in testing FU. I am in no way, shape, or form advocating reckless abando=
nment
> of our rights toward intellectual property creators and owners. I believ=
e in
> the necessity of protecting copyright in order to encourage creation (tha=
t's
> what the Constitutional guys had in mind). I also firmly believe that F=
air
> Use is a right, just as the owner's of copyright have rights. I think we=
're
> (librarians and the public) increasingly being buffaloed by IP owners and
> quasi-owners into believing otherwise.
>=20
> Gary
>=20
> At 03:53 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>> I am stating that "fair use" has ALWAYS been understood to be a PORTION =
of
>> complete work. "Fair Use" is SPECIFICALLY and ALWAYS been used as A PAR=
T OF
>> ANOTHER WORK. Showing and ENTIRE work in a festival can in no way shape =
or
>> form be construed as being incorporated into another work.
>>=20
>> Frankly "Fair Use" gets thrown around pretty recklessly around here.
>> Could anyone seriously believe that "fair use" is going to cover your as=
s if
>> you use an ENTIRE copyrighted work in a festival
>>=20
>> Basically people are just justifying ripping off a rights holder they c=
an't
>> afford to locate.
>>=20
>> Let's see first we say it is OK because it might be an "Orphan" film but
>> oops that is A not yet in the copyright law and B only applies to films =
in
>> the last 20 years of copyright, next we try the "due diligence" argument=
in
>> that gee we asked the people who should know and they say they don't kn=
ow
>> who owns it and we can't afford those time consuming expensive copyright
>> searches by experts so lets just assume it has no owner. and now lastly=
we
>> claim "fair use"
>>=20
>> Ok I know this is one of my rants but if falls close to home because I =
have
>> been dealing with Universities and other organizations claiming that th=
ey
>> don't have to pay to show a film because they are non- profit and
>> educational, or they did not know who owned a film or whatever. I do thi=
s
>> for a living , we try hard to get the PPR rights when we acquire of film=
but
>> it is not always possible. There is no free pass when it comes to featur=
e
>> films. They have owners , you want to show them, you FIND the owners and
>> come to terms or you find another movie , or at the very least admit you=
are
>> trying to sneak around and not get caught because you really, really wan=
t to
>> show a certain film. Lets not pretend there is any legal basis for showi=
ng a
>> film publicly without the owners permission
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6/1/06 6:01 PM, "M. Claire Stewart" <claire-stewart@northwestern.edu>
>> wrote:
>>=20
>>> > Public performance is one of the exclusive rights
>>> > of the copyright holder. Fair use is a limitation
>>> > on the copyright holder's exclusive rights (in
>>> > the form of an affirmative defense, as has been
>>> > previously discussed on this list). If you are
>>> > suggesting that a fair use argument could never
>>> > be advanced for a public performance, you are
>>> > wrong.
>>> >=20
>>> > You and Patty might be correct that a court might
>>> > not view this particular case as a fair use, but
>>> > then again, you might be incorrect. The list of
>>> > uses in the section are illustrative (criticism,
>>> > teaching, etc.), not comprehensive.
>>> >=20
>>> > Claire
>>> >=20
>>>> >> Bottom line you are showing a COPYRIGHTED film
>>>> >> to a PUBLIC audience WITHOUT paying a rights
>>>> >> holder because
>>>> >> It is basically too EXPENSIVE to find the rights
>>>> >> holder. Does not pass the smell test.
>>>> >> Like I keep saying ( and Dennis also) you CAN
>>>> >> find rights holders of feature films but it is
>>>> >> often very expensive and time consuming
>>>> >> Due diligence is not about cost but about doing
>>>> >> the standard and accepted practice of finding a
>>>> >> rights holder
>>>> >> The standard and accepted practice of locating a
>>>> >> rights holder is to HIRE a copyright
>>>> >> researcher/lawyer to track it down
>>>> >> Just being told by exhibitors and other
>>>> >> companies that in essesense they don't know who
>>>> >> owns something is legally meaningless
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> For the record CHINESE GHOST STORY is perfectly marketable and valu=
able
>>>> film.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> I think you know better than to believe that
>>>> >> "fair use" could ever involve public showing of
>>>> >> copyrighted film
>>>> >> No matter how much of a bitch it is to track it down.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Much of this boils down to the fact that you
>>>> >> won't get caught but I am upset that you would
>>>> >> think it either legal
>>>> >> Or proper to do it.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Kino often gets rights to films that have been
>>>> >> out of distribution for years, owned by
>>>> >> difficult and cranky right holders in
>>>> >> Europe. We would be most upset if venues had in
>>>> >> the meantime just projected old video or DVD
>>>> >> copies because they had
>>>> >> Not been able or willing to track these guys
>>>> >> down and frankly that is what you are suggesting
>>>> >> & supporting.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On 6/1/06 4:22 PM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> w=
rote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> It DOES have something to do with fair use,
>>>> >> Jessica. There is nothing in the concept of
>>>> >> fair use that says you can't show an entire
>>>> >> film. Although one of the tests of FU is
>>>> >> the amount and substantiality of the portion
>>>> >> used in relation to the copyrighted work as a
>>>> >> whole, perhaps most significant is
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> --The effect upon the potential market for or
>>>> >> value of the copyrighted work and
>>>> >> --The purpose and character of the use,
>>>> >> including whether such use is of a commercial
>>>> >> nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> As I contended before, if there is virtually no
>>>> >> impact on the market (there can't be impact if
>>>> >> the item isn't being sold and if no profit is
>>>> >> being made) I'd call it fair use...
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> I NEVER said 108 had anything to do with performance, for God sake!
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> xoxoxo
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Gary
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> At 12:53 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Sorry but there is no question this film has an
>>>> >> owner , just one very messed but most likely
>>>> >> through bankruptcy.
>>>> >> Also no one has in fact attempted a "real"
>>>> >> search involving either a copyright specialist
>>>> >> or lawyer who most likely COULD track down
>>>> >> some legal rep for the film however it would
>>>> >> cost more to do this than one would ever spend
>>>> >> on a film. This is NOT an orphan film,
>>>> >> it is not a film in it it's last 20 years of
>>>> >> copyright. It is a recent film with an owner
>>>> >> that is difficult and expensive to track down
>>>> >> For the purposes for which it is needed
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> However the more crucial point is that no one
>>>> >> not even the guys making the film reported in
>>>> >> the Times on Sunday
>>>> >> Has EVER made a claim that "fair use" involves
>>>> >> using an ENTIRE film . This kind of thing (
>>>> >> showing a film in a festivalish setting)
>>>> >> has nothing to do with fair use. Those guys are
>>>> >> pushing the envelope and keeping it to less than
>>>> >> 2 minutes .
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Basically what we are arguing is would you ever
>>>> >> get caught ( certainly not with this film)
>>>> >> however it is clearly not legal to do it
>>>> >> And nothing in section 108 or other sections has
>>>> >> anything to do with showing a modern feature
>>>> >> film for which you essentially do not
>>>> >> have the resources to track down the rights holder.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> I feel like the ghost of Jed has invaded when we
>>>> >> want to go so far beyond anything resembling
>>>> >> academic use
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On 6/1/06 3:26 PM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu> w=
rote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> If the film is demonstrably unobtainable, no
>>>> >> longer in on the market anywhere and not likely
>>>> >> to be in the near future...and if it's a free
>>>> >> festival, I'd go to the mat for showing it. I
>>>> >> cannot, in any case, see any market impact
>>>> >> (perhaps the most significant test of fair use)
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Gary
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> At 11:41 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >> Sorry but showing an ENTIRE film in the course
>>>> >> of what is basically a festival is never ever
>>>> >> going to be considered "fair use"
>>>> >> I am only replying to the question that started
>>>> >> this. None of these copyright exemptions is
>>>> >> going to allow anyone to show
>>>> >> An entire film to the public without clearence
>>>> >> from rights holder and again feature films do
>>>> >> in 98% of cases HAVE rights holders
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> I may be misunderstanding this but I think you
>>>> >> are making a HUGE leap from wanting to use a
>>>> >> film in class and or for research and allowing
>>>> >> It to be shown publicly .
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Again I am just going back to the ORIGINAL
>>>> >> question re CHINESE GHOST STORY and similar
>>>> >> situations involving the showing
>>>> >> Of entire feature films OUTSIDE the face to face teaching exemption
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On 6/1/06 1:54 PM, "Brewer, Michael" <brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu=
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Yes! Couldn't have said it better myself, Gary
>>>> >> (though Lord knows I've tried).
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On another note, as a Section 108 nerd, I'll
>>>> >> point out that actually 108 DOES have something
>>>> >> to do with performance (though in a very narrow
>>>> >> sense, and not having anything to do with film,
>>>> >> except news) in the section on works in their
>>>> >> last 20 years:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (h)(1) For purposes of this section, during the
>>>> >> last 20 years of any term of copyright of a
>>>> >> published work, a library or archives, including
>>>> >> a nonprofit educational institution that
>>>> >> functions as such, may reproduce, distribute,
>>>> >> display, or PERFORM in facsimile or digital form
>>>> >> a copy or phonorecord of such work, or portions
>>>> >> thereof, for purposes of preservation,
>>>> >> scholarship, or research, if such library or
>>>> >> archives has first determined, on the basis of a
>>>> >> reasonable investigation, that none of the
>>>> >> conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A), (B),
>>>> >> and (C) of paragraph (2) apply.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (2) No reproduction, distribution, display, or
>>>> >> performance is authorized under this subsection
>>>> >> if =B0=A9
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (A) the work is subject to normal commercial exploitation;
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (B) a copy or phonorecord of the work can be
>>>> >> obtained at a reasonable price; or
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (C) the copyright owner or its agent provides
>>>> >> notice pursuant to regulations promulgated by
>>>> >> the Register of Copyrights that either of the
>>>> >> conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A) and
>>>> >> (B) applies.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (3) The exemption provided in this subsection
>>>> >> does not apply to any subsequent uses by users
>>>> >> other than such library or archives.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> (i) The rights of reproduction and distribution
>>>> >> under this section do not apply to a musical
>>>> >> work, a pictorial, graphic or sculptural work,
>>>> >> or a motion picture or other audiovisual work
>>>> >> other than an audiovisual work dealing with
>>>> >> news, except that no such limitation shall apply
>>>> >> with respect to rights granted by subsections
>>>> >> (b) and (c), or with respect to pictorial or
>>>> >> graphic works published as illustrations,
>>>> >> diagrams, or similar adjuncts to works of which
>>>> >> copies are reproduced or distributed in
>>>> >> accordance with subsections (d) and (e).
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> mb
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Michael Brewer
>>>> >> Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>>>> >> University of Arizona Library A210
>>>> >> 1510 E. University
>>>> >> P.O. Box 210055
>>>> >> Tucson, AZ 85721
>>>> >> Voice: 520.307.2771
>>>> >> Fax: 520.621.9733
>>>> >> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu [
>>>> >> < mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]
>>>> <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> >
>>>> mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel=
>
>>>> >> ey.edu]=20
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> >> < mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]
>>>> <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> ><
>>>> mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berke <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berke> =
>>
>>>> ley.edu]>=20
>>>> >> < mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]
>>>> <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> >
>>>> mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel=
>
>>>> >> ey.edu] >=20
>>>> >> < mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]
>>>> <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> ><
>>>> mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berke <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berke> =
>>
>>>> ley.edu]>=20
>>>> >> On Behalf Of Gary Handman
>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:18 AM
>>>> >> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Due diligence
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> 108 has nothing to do with performance (never said it did)
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> It occurs to me that it's increasingly easy for
>>>> >> librarians (and educators) to be totally cowed
>>>> >> by threats, conjectures, rumors about a cluster
>>>> >> of ill-defined and misunderstood law. I think
>>>> >> also that a lot of cultural capital is being
>>>> >> held hostage in the process...(as in the case
>>>> >> being cited here) This is NOT (NOT!) to
>>>> >> downplay the necessity of doing the right thing
>>>> >> in terms of compliance. Nonetheless, I think
>>>> >> it's also important to go to bat for fair use
>>>> >> and to take some risk on behalf of broad access.
>>>> >> It's what librarians were born to do. If it
>>>> >> were I, and if no money were changing hands, I'd
>>>> >> show the damn film and be done with it.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Gary
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> At 08:42 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> This may be so Gary but the question that
>>>> >> started this was about showing a film to a to
>>>> >> a public audience and in this case
>>>> >> A feature film less than 20 years old which
>>>> >> certainly is not without an owner though it may
>>>> >> well have been caught up in legal
>>>> >> Issues including bankruptcy. I don't think
>>>> >> anything in 108 ever relates to public showings.
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On 6/1/06 11:17 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> OK...this is thin ice I'm skating on, but...
>>>> >> I think the definition of and requirements for
>>>> >> due diligence in relation to copyright is very
>>>> >> likely bound to mean different things for
>>>> >> different types of use and use contexts. Due
>>>> >> diligence in relation to a library wishing to
>>>> >> perform a copyrighted work or preserve it under
>>>> >> Section 108 rights ain't the same as due
>>>> >> diligence in relation to a filmmaker wishing to
>>>> >> incorporate footage into another work.
>>>> >> Gary
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> At 05:21 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >> Finding a holder of a copyright is not the
>>>> >> hardest thing in the world to do. I can say this
>>>> >> honestly because it's what I do for much of my
>>>> >> work. It's like learning any job.
>>>> >> There are several people who do this for a
>>>> >> living who have been known to work at very
>>>> >> reasonable prices. My guess is that due
>>>> >> dilligence would be defined as hiring one of
>>>> >> these specialists or paying Thompson & Thompson
>>>> >> for a copyright search.
>>>> >> Yes, sometimes it does take a long time. It took
>>>> >> me fifteen years to find Elizabeth Rogers, the
>>>> >> rights holder to People of the Wind, but I did
>>>> >> it because I thought it worth it. If a filmmaker
>>>> >> had to do this for a film in production, perhaps
>>>> >> they'd use a still or a trailer instead -- or
>>>> >> find another option. I'm facing many of these
>>>> >> issues trying to clear the music rights (four
>>>> >> years and running) for KILLER OF SHEEP.
>>>> >> If anyone has seen Tony Buba's LIGHTNING OVER
>>>> >> BRADDOCK (available at Zeitgeist), it has a
>>>> >> wonderful scene where he has to consider whether
>>>> >> he should pay $15,000 to CAMI for the rights to
>>>> >> Jumpin' Jack Flash which is absolutely,
>>>> >> positively necessary for the scene. His solution
>>>> >> was FAR better than if he had paid for the
>>>> >> rights.
>>>> >> A greedy copyright holder is not THE obstacle to
>>>> >> art or education -- a lack of imagination is.
>>>> >> Fan of the first place Mets,
>>>> >> Dennis Doros
>>>> >> Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero
>>>> >> PO Box 128
>>>> >> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>>>> >> Phone: 201.767.3117
>>>> >> Fax: 201.767.3035
>>>> >> milefilms@aol.com
>>>> >> www.milestonefilms.com <http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>>>> >> < http://www.milestonefilms.com <http://www.milestonefilms.com> ><
>>>> http://www.milestonefilms.com <http://www.milestonefilms.com> >
>>>> >> <=20
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>>>> >> =20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Gary Handman
>>>> >> Director
>>>> >> Media Resources Center
>>>> >> Moffitt Library
>>>> >> UC Berkeley
>>>> >> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>>> >> <=20
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//www
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>>>> >> < < <=20
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>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> *****
>>>> >> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>>>> >> all of life presents itself as an
>>>> >> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>>> >> --Guy Debord
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Jessica Rosner
>>>> >> Kino International
>>>> >> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>>> >> NY NY 10018
>>>> >> jrosner@kino.com
>>>> >> 212-629-6880
>>>> >> Gary Handman
>>>> >> Director
>>>> >> Media Resources Center
>>>> >> Moffitt Library
>>>> >> UC Berkeley
>>>> >> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> < <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> *****
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>>>> >> all of life presents itself as an
>>>> >> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>>> >> --Guy Debord
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Jessica Rosner
>>>> >> Kino International
>>>> >> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>>> >> NY NY 10018
>>>> >> jrosner@kino.com
>>>> >> 212-629-6880
>>>> >> Gary Handman
>>>> >> Director
>>>> >> Media Resources Center
>>>> >> Moffitt Library
>>>> >> UC Berkeley
>>>> >> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>>> >> *****
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>>>> >> all of life presents itself as an
>>>> >> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>>> >> --Guy Debord
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Jessica Rosner
>>>> >> Kino International
>>>> >> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>>> >> NY NY 10018
>>>> >> jrosner@kino.com
>>>> >> 212-629-6880
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Gary Handman
>>>> >> Director
>>>> >> Media Resources Center
>>>> >> Moffitt Library
>>>> >> UC Berkeley
>>>> >> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>>> >> <=20
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http:=
//www
>>>> .lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> < http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>=
><
>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> > **=
***
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>>>> >> all of life presents itself as an
>>>> >> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>>> >> --Guy Debord
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Jessica Rosner
>>>> >> Kino International
>>>> >> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>>> >> NY NY 10018
>>>> >> jrosner@kino.com
>>>> >> 212-629-6880
>>> >=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>> =20
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of iss=
ues
>> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control=
,
>> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries=
and
>> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effecti=
ve
>> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication=
=20
>> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and=20
>> distributors.
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>=20
> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> *****
>=20
> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of=20
> spectacles."
> --Guy Debord=20

Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
=20
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

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Re: [Videolib] Due diligence Ok Ga= ry then tell me why in the entire history of FU has it ALWAYS been legally i= nterpreted as being right to INCORPORATE something into another work.
The legal term is in fact “transformative” FU has in every case= been used as right to TRANSFORM or USE  something IN ANOTHER WORK
So to use clips, quotes etc IN ANOTHER work. It has never  ever been u= sed to allow a COMPLETE work by itself so yes in this case you are just maki= ng up law. I don’t think even the most copyright hating lawyer/ artist= would EVER suggest
That “fair use” can EVER and I mean ever be justified as a way = of showing a complete work under copyright

Find me any instance where this has been done or argued.

.

I will if  you like get you quotes from “fair use” cases w= hich refer to is “transformative” nature

Seriously you KNOW that  “fair use” is intended and has de= veloped as  limited right under certain circumstances to use
An otherwise copyrighted work  as PART of another work.

Other than WANTING it to be otherwise and because frankly it  sound ni= ce , I mean gee this should be
“Fair” right ? How can you justify this.

Also going back as I seem to be the only one who wants to to the ORIGINAL q= uestion , what the “F” would “Fair use” have to do With showing this film ? The question was if you can’t basically affo= rd to track down a difficult to locate copyright holder , can you show the f= ilm
anyway? So please explain how this is remotely relevant  ? Fair Use ha= s nothing what so ever do with a films copyright status
That much you can’t argue. So why does the fact that it is difficult = to find a copyright holder entitle  you to claim some non existent
“fair use” right to show a whole film

Again  you are claiming the “right”  to show a copyri= ghted film to a public audience in a free non profit setting  is  = covered under “ Fair Use” well in that case
EVERY film should be included why does it’s copyright status matter .= If conversely it it has to do with the fact that it is really
expensive to find the copyright holder where the hell does “fair use&= #8221; enter into it ?

Again the reason I rant on this is that I have a lot of groups throw “= ;fair use” “non profit”  “ No admission” =  “only On campus”
And other crap when justifying showing one of our films without paying us.<= BR>
The only difference between us and some company/lawyer in Hong Kong who own= s CHINESE GHOST STORY is that
we are paying attention ( as best we can).

I do understand your frustration with bullying IP owners but this is not a = case of that, merely of people who understandably
want to show a film they can’t clear. However there is just no right = to show something because you can’t afford to find the rights holder ( or they won’t grant you the rights).

You're coming up with the Rosner Reading of FU, Jessica= .  There's nothing in the law itself or in case law that support= s what you're saying.  Some of this stuff is patently wrong.  The = only thing the law says about FU in terms of portion used is that it's one o= f the considerations that needs to be weighed in testing FU.  I am in n= o way, shape, or form advocating reckless abandonment of our rights toward i= ntellectual property creators and owners.  I believe in the necessity o= f protecting copyright in order to encourage creation (that's what the Const= itutional guys had in mind).  I also firmly believe that  Fair Use= is a right, just as the owner's of copyright have rights.  I think we'= re (librarians and the public) increasingly being buffaloed by IP owners and= quasi-owners into believing otherwise.

Gary

At 03:53 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
I am stating that "fair use" has ALWAYS been = understood to be a PORTION of
complete work. "Fair Use" is SPECIFICALLY and ALWAYS been used as=  A PART OF
ANOTHER WORK. Showing and ENTIRE work in a festival can in no way shape or<= BR> form be construed as being incorporated into another  work.

Frankly "Fair Use" gets thrown around pretty recklessly around he= re.
Could anyone seriously believe that "fair use" is going to cover = your ass if
you use an ENTIRE copyrighted work in a festival

Basically people  are just justifying ripping off a rights holder they= can't
afford to locate.

Let's see first we say it is OK because it might be an "Orphan" f= ilm but
oops that is A not yet in the copyright law and B only applies to films in<= BR> the last 20 years of copyright, next we try the "due diligence" a= rgument  in
that  gee we asked the people who should know and they say they don't = know
who owns it and we can't afford those time consuming expensive copyright searches by experts  so lets just assume it has no owner. and now last= ly we
claim "fair use"

Ok I know this is one of my rants but if falls  close to home because = I have
been dealing with Universities and other organizations  claiming that = they
don't have to pay to show a film  because they are non- profit and
educational, or they did not know who owned a film or whatever. I do this for a living , we try hard to get the PPR rights when we acquire of film bu= t
it is not always possible. There is no free pass when it comes to feature films. They have owners , you want to show them, you FIND the owners and come to terms or you find another movie , or at the very least admit you ar= e
trying to sneak around and not get caught because you really, really want t= o
show a certain film. Lets not pretend there is any legal basis for showing = a
film publicly without the owners permission





On 6/1/06 6:01 PM, "M. Claire Stewart" <claire-stewart@northwe= stern.edu>
wrote:

> Public performance is one of the exclusive rights
> of the copyright holder. Fair use is a limitation
> on the copyright holder's exclusive rights (in
> the form of an affirmative defense, as has been
> previously discussed on this list). If you are
> suggesting that a fair use argument could never
> be advanced for a public performance, you are
> wrong.
>
> You and Patty might be correct that a court might
> not view this particular case as a fair use, but
> then again, you might be incorrect. The list of
> uses in the section are illustrative (criticism,
> teaching, etc.), not comprehensive.
>
> Claire
>
>> Bottom line you are showing a COPYRIGHTED film
>> to a PUBLIC audience WITHOUT paying a rights
>> holder because
>> It is basically too EXPENSIVE to find the rights
>> holder. Does not pass the smell test.
>> Like I keep saying ( and Dennis also) you CAN
>> find  rights holders of feature films but it is
>> often very expensive and time consuming
>> Due diligence is not about cost but about doing
>> the standard and accepted practice of finding a
>> rights holder
>> The standard and accepted practice of locating a
>> rights holder is to HIRE a copyright
>> researcher/lawyer to track it down
>> Just being told by exhibitors  and other
>> companies that in essesense they don't  know who
>> owns something is legally meaningless
>>
>> For the record CHINESE GHOST STORY is perfectly marketable and val= uable film.
>>
>> I think you know better than to believe that
>> "fair use" could ever involve public showing of
>> copyrighted film
>> No matter how much of a bitch it is to track it down.
>>
>> Much of this boils down  to the fact that  you
>> won't get caught but I am upset that you would
>> think it either legal
>> Or proper to do it.
>>
>> Kino often gets rights to films that have been
>> out of distribution for years, owned by
>> difficult and cranky  right holders in
>> Europe. We would be most upset if venues had in
>> the meantime just projected old video or DVD
>> copies because they had
>> Not been able or willing to track these guys
>> down and frankly that is what you are suggesting
>> & supporting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/06 4:22 PM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.b= erkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>> It DOES have something to do with fair use,
>> Jessica.  There is nothing in the concept of
>> fair use that says you can't show an entire
>> film.  Although one of the tests of FU is
>> the amount and substantiality of the portion
>> used in relation to the copyrighted work as a
>> whole, perhaps most significant is
>>
>> --The effect upon the potential market for or
>> value of the copyrighted work and
>> --The purpose and character of the use,
>> including whether such use is of a commercial
>> nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes.
>>
>> As I contended before, if there is virtually no
>> impact on the market (there can't be impact if
>> the item isn't being sold and if no profit is
>> being made) I'd call it fair use...
>>
>> I NEVER said 108 had anything to do with performance, for God sake= !
>>
>> xoxoxo
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> At 12:53 PM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>
>> Sorry but there is no question this film has an
>> owner , just one very messed but most likely
>> through bankruptcy.
>> Also no one has in fact attempted  a "real"
>> search involving either a copyright specialist
>> or lawyer who most likely COULD track down
>> some legal rep for the film however it would
>> cost more to do this than one would ever spend
>> on a film. This is NOT an orphan film,
>> it is not a film in it it's last 20 years of
>> copyright. It is a recent film with an owner
>> that is difficult and expensive to track down
>> For the purposes for which it is needed
>>
>> However the more crucial point is that no one
>> not even the guys making the film reported in
>> the Times on Sunday
>> Has EVER made a claim that "fair use" involves
>> using an ENTIRE film . This kind of thing (
>> showing a film in a festivalish setting)
>>  has nothing to do with fair use. Those guys are
>> pushing the envelope and keeping it to less than
>> 2 minutes .
>>
>> Basically what we are arguing is would you ever
>> get caught  ( certainly not with this film)
>> however it is clearly not legal to do it
>> And nothing in section 108 or other sections has
>> anything to do with showing a modern feature
>> film for which you essentially do not
>> have the resources to track down the rights holder.
>>
>> I feel like the ghost of Jed has invaded when we
>> want to go so far beyond anything resembling
>> academic use
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/06 3:26 PM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.b= erkeley.edu> wrote:
>>
>> If the film is demonstrably unobtainable, no
>> longer in on the market anywhere and not likely
>> to be in the near future...and if it's a free
>> festival, I'd go to the mat for showing it.   I
>> cannot, in any case, see any market impact
>> (perhaps the most significant test of fair use)
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> At 11:41 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>> Sorry but showing an ENTIRE film in the course
>> of what is basically a festival is never ever
>> going to be considered "fair use"
>> I am only replying to the question that started
>> this. None of these copyright exemptions is
>> going to allow anyone to show
>> An entire film to the public without clearence
>> from rights holder and again feature films do
>> in 98% of cases HAVE rights holders
>>
>> I may be misunderstanding this but I think you
>> are making a HUGE leap from wanting to use a
>> film in class and or for research and allowing
>> It to be shown publicly .
>>
>> Again I am just going back to the ORIGINAL
>> question re CHINESE GHOST STORY and similar
>> situations involving the showing
>> Of entire feature films OUTSIDE the face to face teaching exemptio= n
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/06 1:54 PM, "Brewer, Michael" <brewerm@u.libra= ry.arizona.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Yes!  Couldn't have said it better myself, Gary
>> (though Lord knows I've tried).
>>
>> On another note, as a Section 108 nerd, I'll
>> point out that actually 108 DOES have something
>> to do with performance (though in a very narrow
>> sense, and not having anything to do with film,
>> except news) in the section on works in their
>> last 20 years:
>>
>> (h)(1) For purposes of this section, during the
>> last 20 years of any term of copyright of a
>> published work, a library or archives, including
>> a nonprofit educational institution that
>> functions as such, may reproduce, distribute,
>> display, or PERFORM in facsimile or digital form
>> a copy or phonorecord of such work, or portions
>> thereof, for purposes of preservation,
>> scholarship, or research, if such library or
>> archives has first determined, on the basis of a
>> reasonable investigation, that none of the
>> conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A), (B),
>> and (C) of paragraph (2) apply.
>>
>> (2) No reproduction, distribution, display, or
>> performance is authorized under this subsection
>> if °©
>>
>> (A) the work is subject to normal commercial exploitation;
>>
>> (B) a copy or phonorecord of the work can be
>> obtained at a reasonable price; or
>>
>> (C) the copyright owner or its agent provides
>> notice pursuant to regulations promulgated by
>> the Register of Copyrights that either of the
>> conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A) and
>> (B) applies.
>>
>> (3) The exemption provided in this subsection
>> does not apply to any subsequent uses by users
>> other than such library or archives.
>>
>> (i) The rights of reproduction and distribution
>> under this section do not apply to a musical
>> work, a pictorial, graphic or sculptural work,
>> or a motion picture or other audiovisual work
>> other than an audiovisual work dealing with
>> news, except that no such limitation shall apply
>> with respect to rights granted by subsections
>> (b) and (c), or with respect to pictorial or
>> graphic works published as illustrations,
>> diagrams, or similar adjuncts to works of which
>> copies are reproduced or distributed in
>> accordance with subsections (d) and (e).
>>
>> mb
>>
>>
>> Michael Brewer
>> Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>> University of Arizona Library A210
>> 1510 E. University
>> P.O. Box 210055
>> Tucson, AZ 85721
>> Voice: 520.307.2771
>> Fax: 520.621.9733
>> brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu [
>> < mailto:ow= ner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> > mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel<= /a> <mailto:owner-videolib@l= ists.berkel>
>> ey.edu]
>> <
>> < mailto:ow= ner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> >< = mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berk= e <mailto:owner-videolib@= lists.berke> >> ley.edu]>
>> < mailto:ow= ner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> > mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkel<= /a> <mailto:owner-videolib@l= ists.berkel>
>> ey.edu] >
>> < mailto:ow= ner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu] <mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berkeley.edu]> >< = mailto:owner-videolib@lists.berk= e <mailto:owner-videolib@= lists.berke> >> ley.edu]>
>>  On Behalf Of Gary Handman
>> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:18 AM
>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Due diligence
>>
>> 108 has nothing to do with performance (never said it did)
>>
>> It occurs to me that it's increasingly easy for
>> librarians (and educators) to be totally cowed
>> by threats, conjectures, rumors about a cluster
>> of ill-defined and misunderstood  law.  I think
>> also that a lot of cultural capital is being
>> held hostage in the process...(as in the case
>> being cited here) This is NOT  (NOT!) to
>> downplay the necessity of doing the right thing
>> in terms of compliance. Nonetheless,  I think
>> it's also important to go to bat for fair use
>> and to take some risk on behalf of broad access.
>> It's what librarians were born to do. If it
>> were I, and if no money were changing hands, I'd
>> show the damn film and be done with it.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> At 08:42 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> This may be so Gary but the question that
>> started this was about  showing a film to a  to
>> a public audience and in this case
>> A feature film less than 20 years old which
>> certainly is not without an owner though it may
>> well have been caught up in legal
>> Issues including bankruptcy. I don't think
>> anything in 108 ever relates to public showings.
>>
>>
>> On 6/1/06 11:17 AM, "Gary Handman" <ghandman@library.= berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> OK...this is thin ice I'm skating on, but...
>> I think the definition of and requirements for
>> due diligence in relation to copyright is very
>> likely bound to mean different things for
>> different types of use and use contexts.  Due
>> diligence in relation to a library wishing to
>> perform a copyrighted work or preserve it under
>> Section 108 rights ain't the same as due
>> diligence in relation to a filmmaker wishing to
>> incorporate footage into another work.
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> At 05:21 AM 6/1/2006, you wrote:
>> Finding a holder of a copyright is not the
>> hardest thing in the world to do. I can say this
>> honestly because it's what I do for much of my
>> work. It's like learning any job.
>> There are several people who do this for a
>> living who have been known to work at very
>> reasonable prices. My guess is that due
>> dilligence would be defined as hiring one of
>> these specialists or paying Thompson & Thompson
>> for a copyright search.
>> Yes, sometimes it does take a long time. It took
>> me fifteen years to find Elizabeth Rogers, the
>> rights holder to People of the Wind, but I did
>> it because I thought it worth it. If a filmmaker
>> had to do this for a film in production, perhaps
>> they'd use a still or a trailer instead -- or
>> find another option. I'm facing many of these
>> issues trying to clear the music rights (four
>> years and running) for KILLER OF SHEEP.
>> If anyone has seen Tony Buba's LIGHTNING OVER
>> BRADDOCK (available at Zeitgeist), it has a
>> wonderful scene where he has to consider whether
>> he should pay $15,000 to CAMI for the rights to
>> Jumpin' Jack Flash which is absolutely,
>> positively necessary for the scene. His solution
>> was FAR better than if he had paid for the
>> rights.
>> A greedy copyright holder is not THE obstacle to
>> art or education -- a lack of imagination is.
>> Fan of the first place Mets,
>> Dennis Doros
>> Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero
>> PO Box 128
>> Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>> Phone: 201.767.3117
>> Fax: 201.767.3035
>> milefilms@aol.com
>> www.milestonefilms.com <= ;http://www.milestonefilms.com>
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>>   < < <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
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>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> <
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>> < http://www.milestonefi= lms.com">http://www.milestonefilms.com>http://www.milestonefilms.com = <http://www.milestonefilms.com>= ; >
>> < http://www.milestonef= ilms.com <http://www.mileston= efilms.com> >< http://w= ww.milestonefilms.com <http:/= /www.milestonefilms.com> >
>>   
>>
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.= edu/MRC>
>>   < < <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>   *****
>> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,<= BR> >>           all of= life presents itself as an
>> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>           --Guy = Debord
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.= edu/MRC>
>>
>>  < <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>>  *****
>>
>> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,<= BR> >>           all of= life presents itself as an
>> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>            = --Guy Debord
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.= edu/MRC>
>>
>>  <
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkele= y.edu/MRC> >
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> >
>> *****
>>
>> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,<= BR> >>           all of= life presents itself as an
>> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>            =  --Guy Debord
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>>
>> Gary Handman
>> Director
>> Media Resources Center
>> Moffitt Library
>> UC Berkeley
>> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> < http://www.lib.berke= ley.edu/MRC">http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/= MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC&gt;http://www.lib.berkeley.= edu/MRC>
>>
>> < http://www.lib.berk= eley.edu/MRC <http://www.li= b.berkeley.edu/MRC> >< http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC> > *****
>>
>> "In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,<= BR> >>           all of= life presents itself as an
>> immense accumulation of spectacles."
>>            =   --Guy Debord
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Kino International
>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>> NY NY 10018
>> jrosner@kino.com
>> 212-629-6880
>



Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
 
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880



VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues= relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, p= reservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and = related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective w= orking tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication betw= een libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors= .
Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

 
<http://www.lib.berkeley= .edu/MRC> *****

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
           all of li= fe presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
            &nb= sp; --Guy Debord




Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
 
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

--B_3232037230_348321875--

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.