On 3/24/06 4:10 PM, "Marlene Graham" <mgraham@york.cuny.edu> wrote:
> FYI for distributors. It's a cheaper route to get UPC barcodes but the
> distributor still has to pay a fee to join the UCC (Uniform Code Council).
> The organization that issues the barcodes.
>
>
> Marlene Graham
> Media Resources Manager
> York College
> The City University of New York
> Center for Academic Computing and Education Technology
> Academic Core Building, 4G02A
> 94-20 Guy R. Brewer Blvd.
> Jamaica, NY 11451
> Phone: 718-262-2753
> Fax: 718-262-2114
> mgraham@york.cuny.edu
>
>
>
> Quoting Stephanie Andrew <stephanie.andrew@yale.edu>:
>
>> These numbers, which seem to be the UPC printed on Kino packages, do
>> work fine as a numerical search on OCLC, though the search has to be
>> sn: (standard no.) rather than bn: (ISBN) Does anyone on the list
>> regularly use these? Is a UPC search just as likely/even more likely
>> to work than an ISBN? (Though I think catalogers haven't been as
>> careful to include the 024 UPC as they are the 020.) Now that almost
>> everything sold has a UPC, does someone know what Bowker's ISBN
>> really adds?
>>
>> At 10:41 AM 3/24/2006, you wrote:
>>> Kino does indeed have ISBNs. I just checked in OCLC, searching on
>>> Kino as publisher, visual format, and a date range of 2004-06. I
>>> found 12 records for 2006, 89 for 2005, and 142 for 2004. Very few
>>> of these lacked ISBNs, and some of these are some other company that
>>> happens to have Kino as part of its name.
>>> In fact, all of the ISBNs were the new 13-digit type ... which tells
>>> me that OCLC has taken the 10-digit ISBN in MARC field 020 and
>>> converted it to a 13-digit ISBN in MARC field 024. There is
>>> probably an algorithm built into the 020 that looks at the check
>>> digit and identifies ISBNs with errors. And OCLC probably wants to
>>> keep that algorithm intact, rather than also make it work for the
>>> 13-digit ISBN.
>>> Apparently Kino's prefix is 7383290. The remaining 6 digits that
>>> follow are basically an accession number, which parallels the Kino
>>> product number (e.g. ISBN 738329044121 = Kino #441). In those
>>> instances where Kino is distributing titles for KimStim, the prefix
>>> is 6984522, again with the remaining 6 digits being accession
>>> numbers which match the KimStim product numbers (e.g. 698452202136 =
>>> Kim Stim #KS2021).
>>> So, the ISBNs are coming from somewhere. I assume that someone at
>>> Kino must be assigning them, because when OCLC member libraries
>>> catalog these materials, the ISBN is on the package. I, too, think
>>> that an ISBN is critical to the identification of an item.
>>> Non-library folks probably don't appreciate its value. Very
>>> interesting discussion, though. I never realized that publishers
>>> had to pay for them. So that's how Bowker makes their money!
>>>
>>> Stephanie Andrew wrote:
>>>
>>>> In fact, New Yorker, Wellspring, Koch Lorber, and Wellspring are
>>>> among the imprints who do have ISBNs. Kino, Milestone, WMM, and CA
>>>> Newsreel are among those that don't. Very occasionally, I've run
>>>> into a big distributor title which doesn't have one.
>>>>
>>>> Someone undoubtedly knows the statistics, but I think most library
>>>> workers looking for recent materials routinely first search OCLC,
>>>> etc. by ISBN. It's much more likely to bring up a single, matching
>>>> record than a title search does. And ordering by ISBN instead of
>>>> title makes it easier to specify and get a particular edition of a
>>>> title which has different editions. Collectively, the ISBN system
>>>> has saved lots of library time and money. It was, and is, a good
>>>> idea.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie Andrew
>>>> Film Study Center
>>>> Yale University
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 12:48 PM 3/23/2006, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems that some of our older films ( DAUGHTERS OF THE DUST,
>>>>> COME AND SEE)
>>>>> have them but most newer ones don't. I am afraid this is not anything we
>>>>> would pursue or pay for on our own so I assume most of our films will not
>>>>> have them. I would be surprised if companies like New Yorker, Wellspring,
>>>>> Koch Lorber etc have them either but I don't really know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/23/06 9:44 AM, "Marlene Graham" <mgraham@york.cuny.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jessica
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI, I noted that a Kino title listed in the New York Public Library
>>>>>> database does not have an ISBN number. What it has is a Dynix
>>>>> number that
>>>>>> was assigned by the library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Cinema Guild and Third World Newsreel where I was the distribution
>>>>>> director they purchase and assign ISBN numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Marlene
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marlene Graham (aka Afua Kafi-Akua)
>>>>>> Media Resources Manager
>>>>>> York College
>>>>>> The City University of New York
>>>>>> Center for Academic Computing and Education Technology
>>>>>> Academic Core Building, 4G02A
>>>>>> 94-20 Guy R. Brewer Blvd.
>>>>>> Jamaica, NY 11451
>>>>>> Phone: 718-262-2753
>>>>>> Fax: 718-262-2114
>>>>>> mgraham@york.cuny.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quoting jrosner@kino.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry I realize I am so out of the loop on this I was confusing them
>>>>>>> with OCLC numbers or records. We definately don't pay for ISBN
>>>>>>> numbers in fact
>>>>>>> our video dept has never heard of them. I suppose that means our
>>>>>>> titles do not
>>>>>>> have them but I really don't know. It has honestly never come
>>>>> up at all.
>>>>>>> I know that various wholesalers buy our stuff and resell it
>>>>> pre-catalogued
>>>>>>> but am totally clueless as to if that means that they get them ISBN
>>>>>>> numbers or they don't have them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quoting Herownword@aol.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks to all who have responded (and to future responders as
>>>>>>>> well!). I'm a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> big fan of ISBNs and have put them on all the work we have
>>>>>>>> published/released since 1989 (and retroactively to the ones
>>>>> we produced
>>>>>>>> 1986-1988). I have
>>>>>>>> every intention of continuing to assign ISBNs to all new
>>>>> releases, but have
>>>>>>>> run into a roadblock, as I mentioned. Here is what I have
>>>>> learned so far:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Bowker is indeed the only agency that can assign ISBNs in
>>>>> the US and
>>>>>>>> since it is a monopoly it can and does charge big bucks. (As
>>>>> an aside,
>>>>>>>> ISBNs in
>>>>>>>> Canada appear to be free.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. ISBNs have traditionally been 10 digits (as are the ones I
>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>> use). As of January of 2007, a new 13-digit ISBN system will go
>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> effect. I
>>>>>>>> haven't called Bowker back yet, but my hunch is that it's because
>>>>>>>> the entire
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> numbering system is being modified that I can't keep my old prefix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Because each prefix is a technical number that denotes
>>>>> first of all the
>>>>>>>> country of origin and second of all the particular publisher, it's
>>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> convenient and less error-prone for a publisher to have the
>>>>> same prefix for
>>>>>>>> all titles. (To put this in perspective, the current 10-digit system
>>>>>>>> consists
>>>>>>>> of 7 digits of prefix and only 3 of suffix that changes with each
>>>>>>>> title.)The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> issue for smaller publishers is that Bowker sells ISBNs in blocks of
>>>>>>>> numbers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and you can only get a consistent prefix when you purchase that
>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>> block; you can't go back and get more numbers for that prefix. The
>>>>>>>> smaller,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more affordable blocks are much more expensive per number than
>>>>> the larger
>>>>>>>> blocks and also involve changing prefixes as time goes by. Larger
>>>>>>>> publishers of
>>>>>>>> course just purchase an initial block of 100 or 1,000 or
>>>>> 10,000 ISBNs and
>>>>>>>> then they have the right to use those numbers, all with the same
>>>>>>>> prefix, far
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> into the foreseeable future. (As another aside, I came
>>>>> across a website
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> suggested that in the future book and media reviewers will be able to
>>>>>>>> discern
>>>>>>>> the size of a publishing/media house by its ISBN; as far as I
>>>>> know, that's
>>>>>>>> not possible now.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. The tooth fairy doesn't put ISBNs under your pillow,
>>>>> Jessica. Somebody
>>>>>>>> somewhere is in charge of assigning them to your titles. The
>>>>> ones you
>>>>>>>> distribute that are produced by others would, of course, come
>>>>> with ISBNs
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>> assigned (and with a variety of prefixes, one for each
>>>>> publisher). But for
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> that Kino actually publishes, someone on your staff (or
>>>>> possibly an outside
>>>>>>>> contractor like a copyright/permissions professional or
>>>>> lawyer) assigns the
>>>>>>>> ISBN.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, there you have it. I'll probably bite the bullet and
>>>>> purchase a pricey
>>>>>>>> block of ISBNs, but then, I've been in business for 20 years.
>>>>> It does seem
>>>>>>>> to me unfortunate that a system is evolving that greatly disadvantages
>>>>>>>> startup
>>>>>>>> and micro publishers. The ISBN system is fabulous; it's just
>>>>> too bad that
>>>>>>>> the US ISBN price system is structured the way it is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many thanks again for this listserv.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jocelyn Riley
>>>>>>>> HerOwnWords.com
>>>>>>>> NontraditionalCareers.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>>>
>>>>> Jessica Rosner
>>>>> Kino International
>>>>> 333 W 39th St. 503
>>>>> NY NY 10018
>>>>> jrosner@kino.com
>>>>> 212-629-6880
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Videolib mailing list
>>>>> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Helen P. Mack, Acquisitions Librarian
>>> Lehigh University, Fairchild Library
>>> 8A E. Packer Ave.
>>> Bethlehem, PA 18015-3170 USA
>>>
>>> Phone 610 758-3035 * Fax 610 758-5605
>>> E-mail hpm0@lehigh.edu
>>>
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>
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Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880
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