Re: [Videolib] ISBN #s

Stephanie Andrew (stephanie.andrew@yale.edu)
Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:45:37 -0500

These numbers, which seem to be the UPC printed on Kino packages, do work
fine as a numerical search on OCLC, though the search has to be sn:
(standard no.) rather than bn: (ISBN) Does anyone on the list regularly
use these? Is a UPC search just as likely/even more likely to work than an
ISBN? (Though I think catalogers haven't been as careful to include the
024 UPC as they are the 020.) Now that almost everything sold has a UPC,
does someone know what Bowker's ISBN really adds?

At 10:41 AM 3/24/2006, you wrote:
>Kino does indeed have ISBNs. I just checked in OCLC, searching on Kino as
>publisher, visual format, and a date range of 2004-06. I found 12 records
>for 2006, 89 for 2005, and 142 for 2004. Very few of these lacked ISBNs,
>and some of these are some other company that happens to have Kino as part
>of its name.
>In fact, all of the ISBNs were the new 13-digit type ... which tells me
>that OCLC has taken the 10-digit ISBN in MARC field 020 and converted it
>to a 13-digit ISBN in MARC field 024. There is probably an algorithm
>built into the 020 that looks at the check digit and identifies ISBNs with
>errors. And OCLC probably wants to keep that algorithm intact, rather
>than also make it work for the 13-digit ISBN.
>Apparently Kino's prefix is 7383290. The remaining 6 digits that follow
>are basically an accession number, which parallels the Kino product number
>(e.g. ISBN 738329044121 = Kino #441). In those instances where Kino is
>distributing titles for KimStim, the prefix is 6984522, again with the
>remaining 6 digits being accession numbers which match the KimStim product
>numbers (e.g. 698452202136 = Kim Stim #KS2021).
>So, the ISBNs are coming from somewhere. I assume that someone at Kino
>must be assigning them, because when OCLC member libraries catalog these
>materials, the ISBN is on the package. I, too, think that an ISBN is
>critical to the identification of an item. Non-library folks probably
>don't appreciate its value. Very interesting discussion, though. I
>never realized that publishers had to pay for them. So that's how Bowker
>makes their money!
>
>Stephanie Andrew wrote:
>
>>In fact, New Yorker, Wellspring, Koch Lorber, and Wellspring are among
>>the imprints who do have ISBNs. Kino, Milestone, WMM, and CA Newsreel
>>are among those that don't. Very occasionally, I've run into a big
>>distributor title which doesn't have one.
>>
>>Someone undoubtedly knows the statistics, but I think most library
>>workers looking for recent materials routinely first search OCLC, etc. by
>>ISBN. It's much more likely to bring up a single, matching record than a
>>title search does. And ordering by ISBN instead of title makes it easier
>>to specify and get a particular edition of a title which has different
>>editions. Collectively, the ISBN system has saved lots of library time
>>and money. It was, and is, a good idea.
>>
>>Stephanie Andrew
>>Film Study Center
>>Yale University
>>
>>
>>At 12:48 PM 3/23/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>>It seems that some of our older films ( DAUGHTERS OF THE DUST, COME AND SEE)
>>>have them but most newer ones don't. I am afraid this is not anything we
>>>would pursue or pay for on our own so I assume most of our films will not
>>>have them. I would be surprised if companies like New Yorker, Wellspring,
>>>Koch Lorber etc have them either but I don't really know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 3/23/06 9:44 AM, "Marlene Graham" <mgraham@york.cuny.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Jessica
>>> >
>>> > FYI, I noted that a Kino title listed in the New York Public Library
>>> > database does not have an ISBN number. What it has is a Dynix number
>>> that
>>> > was assigned by the library.
>>> >
>>> > At Cinema Guild and Third World Newsreel where I was the distribution
>>> > director they purchase and assign ISBN numbers.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Marlene
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Marlene Graham (aka Afua Kafi-Akua)
>>> > Media Resources Manager
>>> > York College
>>> > The City University of New York
>>> > Center for Academic Computing and Education Technology
>>> > Academic Core Building, 4G02A
>>> > 94-20 Guy R. Brewer Blvd.
>>> > Jamaica, NY 11451
>>> > Phone: 718-262-2753
>>> > Fax: 718-262-2114
>>> > mgraham@york.cuny.edu
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Quoting jrosner@kino.com:
>>> >
>>> >> Sorry I realize I am so out of the loop on this I was confusing them
>>> >> with OCLC numbers or records. We definately don't pay for ISBN
>>> >> numbers in fact
>>> >> our video dept has never heard of them. I suppose that means our
>>> >> titles do not
>>> >> have them but I really don't know. It has honestly never come up at all.
>>> >> I know that various wholesalers buy our stuff and resell it
>>> pre-catalogued
>>> >> but am totally clueless as to if that means that they get them ISBN
>>> >> numbers or they don't have them.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Quoting Herownword@aol.com:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Thanks to all who have responded (and to future responders as
>>> >>> well!). I'm a
>>> >>>
>>> >>> big fan of ISBNs and have put them on all the work we have
>>> >>> published/released since 1989 (and retroactively to the ones we
>>> produced
>>> >>> 1986-1988). I have
>>> >>> every intention of continuing to assign ISBNs to all new releases,
>>> but have
>>> >>> run into a roadblock, as I mentioned. Here is what I have learned
>>> so far:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 1. Bowker is indeed the only agency that can assign ISBNs in the
>>> US and
>>> >>> since it is a monopoly it can and does charge big bucks. (As an aside,
>>> >>> ISBNs in
>>> >>> Canada appear to be free.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 2. ISBNs have traditionally been 10 digits (as are the ones I
>>>currently
>>> >>> use). As of January of 2007, a new 13-digit ISBN system will go
>>>into
>>> >>> effect. I
>>> >>> haven't called Bowker back yet, but my hunch is that it's because
>>> >>> the entire
>>> >>>
>>> >>> numbering system is being modified that I can't keep my old prefix.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 3. Because each prefix is a technical number that denotes first
>>> of all the
>>> >>> country of origin and second of all the particular publisher, it's
>>> >>> much more
>>> >>>
>>> >>> convenient and less error-prone for a publisher to have the same
>>> prefix for
>>> >>> all titles. (To put this in perspective, the current 10-digit system
>>> >>> consists
>>> >>> of 7 digits of prefix and only 3 of suffix that changes with each
>>> >>> title.)The
>>> >>>
>>> >>> issue for smaller publishers is that Bowker sells ISBNs in blocks of
>>> >>> numbers
>>> >>>
>>> >>> and you can only get a consistent prefix when you purchase that
>>>particular
>>> >>> block; you can't go back and get more numbers for that prefix. The
>>> >>> smaller,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> more affordable blocks are much more expensive per number than
>>> the larger
>>> >>> blocks and also involve changing prefixes as time goes by. Larger
>>> >>> publishers of
>>> >>> course just purchase an initial block of 100 or 1,000 or 10,000
>>> ISBNs and
>>> >>> then they have the right to use those numbers, all with the same
>>> >>> prefix, far
>>> >>>
>>> >>> into the foreseeable future. (As another aside, I came across a
>>> website
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> suggested that in the future book and media reviewers will be able to
>>> >>> discern
>>> >>> the size of a publishing/media house by its ISBN; as far as I
>>>know, that's
>>> >>> not possible now.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 4. The tooth fairy doesn't put ISBNs under your pillow,
>>>Jessica. Somebody
>>> >>> somewhere is in charge of assigning them to your titles. The ones you
>>> >>> distribute that are produced by others would, of course, come with
>>> ISBNs
>>> >>> already
>>> >>> assigned (and with a variety of prefixes, one for each
>>> publisher). But for
>>> >>> any
>>> >>> that Kino actually publishes, someone on your staff (or possibly
>>> an outside
>>> >>> contractor like a copyright/permissions professional or lawyer)
>>> assigns the
>>> >>> ISBN.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So, there you have it. I'll probably bite the bullet and purchase
>>> a pricey
>>> >>> block of ISBNs, but then, I've been in business for 20 years.
>>>It does seem
>>> >>> to me unfortunate that a system is evolving that greatly disadvantages
>>> >>> startup
>>> >>> and micro publishers. The ISBN system is fabulous; it's just
>>>too bad that
>>> >>> the US ISBN price system is structured the way it is.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Many thanks again for this listserv.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Jocelyn Riley
>>> >>> HerOwnWords.com
>>> >>> NontraditionalCareers.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Videolib mailing list
>>> >> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>> >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Videolib mailing list
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>>> > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>>>
>>>Jessica Rosner
>>>Kino International
>>>333 W 39th St. 503
>>>NY NY 10018
>>>jrosner@kino.com
>>>212-629-6880
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>
>>
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>
>
>--
>Helen P. Mack, Acquisitions Librarian
>Lehigh University, Fairchild Library
>8A E. Packer Ave.
>Bethlehem, PA 18015-3170 USA
>
>Phone 610 758-3035 * Fax 610 758-5605
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