Thanks for these leads. Tech staff here will be following them
up, since we're always looking for the next step in developing
online delivery at my institution.
Jeff
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:26:19 -0800
>From: Gary Handman <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>
>Hi Jeff and Mark and all
>
>I've been messing around with the encoders developed by the good
>folks at zentu (http://www.vx30.com/)... Their software
allows one
>to encode from avi, quicktime, windows media or real files: it
>crunches (that's a highly technical term) the files into a
file that
>is delivered via a java-based player. Pretty impossible to
download, I think.
>None of the fancy authentication stuff Mark is talking about,
but you
>can always stick the files in an IP or password authenticated
directory.
>
>Check out
>http://sunsite3.berkeley.edu/videodir/digitalvideotests/koyaan.html
>(using a free, test version of the encoder)...I claim fair
use of the
>content: quoting in the service of criticism and
scholarship...hehehe
>
>gary
>
>PS, we've actually gone ahead and bought the software...will
encode
>in both java and flash video...
>
>
>At 10:40 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:
>>[Care to elaborate on these protective technologies?]
>>
>>Hi Jeff,
>>
>>One example of such protective technologies, is from Niche
Solutions (
>>1-610-391-9389 Earl or Phil...great guys ).
>>
>>They take a video, in Quicktime format, and insert a media
"key", into
>>the file via the Quicktime software. They provide their own
proprietary
>>media player that connects to the Internet, when opening the
video file.
>>The player, encoded with the patron's individual account
information,
>>then checks to see if there is a current reservation for the
particular
>>viewer/patron. The length of reservation, number of
concurrent views,
>>etc can all be controlled. If you don't have a reservation
to view the
>>content, you cannot open the file. If you wish to set the
file to only
>>be viewed by one person at one time, you can certainly do
so. The only
>>"downside", if you wish to call it a downside, is the need
for an
>>Internet connection to open the file. The vendor has gone to
great
>>measure to ensure the protection of "further downstream
dissemination".
>>Note that this software accompanies their media center
software, and
>>includes the web "portion" as well as the database and the
download
>>controls. It rolls out quite easily, and product can be
delivered via
>>your own servers, or through "rented" space on the net (such as
>>Speedera, etc).
>>
>>If you have more questions, feel free to contact me or the
vendor.
>>
>>Mark
>>******************************************
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>clarkjc@jmu.edu
>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:33 AM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>Mark, everyone...
>>
>>Care to elaborate on these protective technologies? I'm in
need of
>>education in this area myself. And would love to learn of a
solution
>>that might work for my own situation....
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>---- Original message ----
>> >Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:47 -0500
>> >From: "Mark Kopp" <iu8film@iu08.org>
>> >Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>> >To: <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
>> >
>> >Very FEW bucks...the software suite is only $49.95
>> >
>> >Looks like there's a free demo too!
>> >
>> >That said, there ARE technologies that can protect
>>copyrighted "copies"
>> >from "further downstream dissemination". I'm not talking about
>> >"scrambling" when attempting to make copies either, such as
>>MacroVision
>> >(sp) or others. Being new, there are certainly some logistic
>>issues, but
>> >nonetheless, there ARE answers.
>> >
>> >Mark
>> >***********************************************
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>> >[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>Gary Handman
>> >Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:35 PM
>> >To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>> >
>> >You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if
>>you're cleaver
>> >enough and have a few bucks to spend
>> >
>> >Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder
>> >http://www.wmrecorder.com/
>> >
>> >gary
>> >
>> >
>> >>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a
>>video you
>> >>can not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong
>>but that
>> >>is my understanding for streaming cindy
>> >>
>> >>__________________________________________________
>> >>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
>> >>Media Resources Librarian
>> >>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
>> >>University of St. Thomas
>> >>phone (651) 962-5464
>> >>fax (651) 962-5406
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Mike Tribby [mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com]
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
>> >>To: 'videolib@library.berkeley.edu'
>> >>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>> >>
>> >>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
>>item owned
>> >
>> >>by the library and just put on reserve. "
>> >>
>> >>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
>>probably not
>> >
>> >>a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
>>negative effect
>> >>(and have yet to understand what it would be, except for
in the
>> >>situation Jessica described with not owning the copy)."
>> >>
>> >>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve
>>if it is
>> >>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be
>>people
>> >>making copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of
>>their dorm
>> >>rooms" or other abodes and doing whatever they pleased with
>>the copies.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Mike Tribby
>> >>Senior Cataloger
>> >>Quality Books Inc.
>> >>The Best of America's Independent Presses
>> >>
>> >>mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Brewer, Michael [mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu]
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
>> >>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>All,
>> >>
>> >>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the
>>4 factors?
>> >>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against
>>the use (I
>> >>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use.
>> This does
>> >>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by
>>the law), but
>> >
>> >>I wanted to check with others.
>> >>
>> >>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of
>>borrowed
>> >>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However,
>>if one
>> >>weighs each case individually, as one should, then this
>>would weigh
>> >>against the effect of the use, and might tip the scales
>>against fair
>> >use.
>> >>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it
>>would were the
>> >>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense
>>is that
>> >>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for
>>streaming
>> >>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a
>>restricted
>> >>population for educational purposes and is password
>>protected and
>> >>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright
>>holder, it is
>> >>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see
>>that
>> >>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would
>>be, except
>> >>for in the situation Jessica described with not owning the
>>copy).
>> >>
>> >>mb
>> >>
>> >>Michael Brewer
>> >>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>>University of
>> >>Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055
>>Tucson, AZ
>> >>85721
>> >>Voice: 520.307.2771
>> >>Fax: 520.621.9733
>> >>brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>Susan
>> >>Albrecht
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
>> >>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>> >>
>> >>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to
>>stream a
>> >>film **that the institution owns** and then password protect
>>it and
>> >>make it available to only a particular class of students,
>>than it would
>> >
>> >>be to have it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?,
>>that it's
>> >>okay to place
>> >>
>> >>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us
>>have done
>> >>in
>> >>
>> >>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it
>>on reserve.
>> >
>> >>The students in that class would have to come into the
library
>> >>
>> >>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view
it here.
>> >>Streaming
>> >>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes
>>the WAY in
>> >
>> >>which those same students view the film. In the streaming
>>situation,
>> >>no
>> >>
>> >>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm
>> >>scratching my head a little here about why this is worse
>>than the
>> >>old-fashioned reserve system.
>> >>
>> >>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no
>>different
>> >>than the faculty member swinging by the library, checking
>>out the video
>> >
>> >>and showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why
>>this would
>> >>cut into sales; the institution still has to buy the
>>original copy that
>> >
>> >>it's going to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at
>>a very
>> >>small institution in this response, though, and you're
>>really thinking
>> >>of large universities?
>> >>
>> >>Susan at Wabash
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more
>>than a
>> >> >stretch and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use
>>would
>> >> >allow the
>> >>streaming
>> >> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders
>>permission.
>> >> >I
>> >>think
>> >> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and
>>assumes that if
>> >> >you
>> >>only
>> >> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use
>>it is OK.
>> >>Taken to
>> >> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream
>>whole books
>> >>under
>> >> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea
>>of 3
>> >> >minutes
>> >>or no
>> >> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin
>>air. What I
>> >>always
>> >> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS
>>legal and
>> >>covered
>> >> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and
>>contact the
>> >> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that
>>this is your
>> >
>> >> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While
>>I am not a
>> >>big
>> >> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff ,
>>the truth is
>> >>small
>> >> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much
>>legal action (
>> >>though
>> >> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an
>>academic
>> >> >institution).
>> >> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are
>>streamed into a
>> >> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to
>>survive. The
>> >>average
>> >> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at
>>a steep
>> >>discount
>> >> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school
>>that buys it
>> >>from
>> >> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all
>>over its
>> >>entire
>> >> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance
>>different
>> >>campuses of
>> >> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always
>>interlibrary
>> >>loan)
>> >> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies.
>>What if
>> >> >the school just borrowed a legal copy from the local
>>rental store and
>> >>digitized
>> >> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now
>>I think we
>> >>are
>> >> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when
>>we have
>> >> >rights
>> >>and
>> >> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke
>>by Goddard
>> >>that
>> >> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and
>>everyone
>> >> >would watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of
>>thinking
>> >> >that you
>> >>can
>> >> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day
>>everyone will
>> >>want to
>> >> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
>> >> >
>> >> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these
>>things and
>> >>have
>> >> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus
>>systems to
>> >> >use
>> >>our
>> >> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a
>>single class
>> >> >but
>> >>this
>> >> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both
>>classes and
>> >>students
>> >> >in those classes.
>> >> >
>> >> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to
>>put out ANY
>> >>small
>> >> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic
>>films we
>> >>COULD
>> >> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them.
>>While streaming
>> >>should
>> >> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream
>>under your
>> >>scenario
>> >> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of
>>these films
>> >>out.
>> >> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African
>>film and I
>> >>can't
>> >> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors
>>that I
>> >>produced on
>> >> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a
>>market. I
>> >> >understand we really all want to work together so that
>>everyone gets
>> >>what
>> >> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole
>>films
>> >> >without compensation to rights holders is almost
>>guaranteed to make
>> >> >fewer and
>> >>fewer
>> >> >small films legally available
>> >> >
>> >> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
>> >> >Because of lack of market
>> >>
>> >>Susan Albrecht
>> >>Acquisitions Coordinator
>> >>Wabash College Lilly Library
>> >>Crawfordsville, IN
>> >>x6216
>> >>albrechs@wabash.edu
>> >>
>>
>>**********************************************************************
>> >>*
>> >>*
>> >>*********
>> >>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a
>>choice."--Neil
>> >>Peart
>>
>>**********************************************************************
>> >>*
>> >>*
>> >>*********
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Videolib mailing list
>> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Videolib mailing list
>> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Videolib mailing list
>> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>Videolib mailing list
>> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>> >
>> >Gary Handman
>> >Director
>> >Media Resources Center
>> >Moffitt Library
>> >UC Berkeley
>> >ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>> >
>> >*****
>> >
>> >"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>> > all of life presents itself as an immense
>>accumulation of
>> >spectacles."
>> > --Guy Debord
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Videolib mailing list
>> >Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Videolib mailing list
>> >Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>
>>===========
>>Jeff Clark
>>Director
>>Media Resources MSC 1701
>>James Madison University
>>Harrisonburg VA 22807
>>clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
>>540-568-6770 (phone)
>>540-568-7037 (fax)
>>_______________________________________________
>>Videolib mailing list
>>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Videolib mailing list
>>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
>*****
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense
accumulation of
>spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Videolib mailing list
>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
===========
Jeff Clark
Director
Media Resources MSC 1701
James Madison University
Harrisonburg VA 22807
clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
540-568-6770 (phone)
540-568-7037 (fax)
_______________________________________________
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