RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

Gary Handman (ghandman@library.berkeley.edu)
Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:26:19 -0800

Hi Jeff and Mark and all

I've been messing around with the encoders developed by the good
folks at zentu (http://www.vx30.com/)... Their software allows one
to encode from avi, quicktime, windows media or real files: it
crunches (that's a highly technical term) the files into a file that
is delivered via a java-based player. Pretty impossible to download, I think.
None of the fancy authentication stuff Mark is talking about, but you
can always stick the files in an IP or password authenticated directory.

Check out
http://sunsite3.berkeley.edu/videodir/digitalvideotests/koyaan.html
(using a free, test version of the encoder)...I claim fair use of the
content: quoting in the service of criticism and scholarship...hehehe

gary

PS, we've actually gone ahead and bought the software...will encode
in both java and flash video...

At 10:40 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:
>[Care to elaborate on these protective technologies?]
>
>Hi Jeff,
>
>One example of such protective technologies, is from Niche Solutions (
>1-610-391-9389 Earl or Phil...great guys ).
>
>They take a video, in Quicktime format, and insert a media "key", into
>the file via the Quicktime software. They provide their own proprietary
>media player that connects to the Internet, when opening the video file.
>The player, encoded with the patron's individual account information,
>then checks to see if there is a current reservation for the particular
>viewer/patron. The length of reservation, number of concurrent views,
>etc can all be controlled. If you don't have a reservation to view the
>content, you cannot open the file. If you wish to set the file to only
>be viewed by one person at one time, you can certainly do so. The only
>"downside", if you wish to call it a downside, is the need for an
>Internet connection to open the file. The vendor has gone to great
>measure to ensure the protection of "further downstream dissemination".
>Note that this software accompanies their media center software, and
>includes the web "portion" as well as the database and the download
>controls. It rolls out quite easily, and product can be delivered via
>your own servers, or through "rented" space on the net (such as
>Speedera, etc).
>
>If you have more questions, feel free to contact me or the vendor.
>
>Mark
>******************************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>clarkjc@jmu.edu
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:33 AM
>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>
>Mark, everyone...
>
>Care to elaborate on these protective technologies? I'm in need of
>education in this area myself. And would love to learn of a solution
>that might work for my own situation....
>
>Jeff
>
>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:47 -0500
> >From: "Mark Kopp" <iu8film@iu08.org>
> >Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> >To: <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
> >
> >Very FEW bucks...the software suite is only $49.95
> >
> >Looks like there's a free demo too!
> >
> >That said, there ARE technologies that can protect
>copyrighted "copies"
> >from "further downstream dissemination". I'm not talking about
> >"scrambling" when attempting to make copies either, such as
>MacroVision
> >(sp) or others. Being new, there are certainly some logistic
>issues, but
> >nonetheless, there ARE answers.
> >
> >Mark
> >***********************************************
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
> >[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>Gary Handman
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:35 PM
> >To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> >
> >You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if
>you're cleaver
> >enough and have a few bucks to spend
> >
> >Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder
> >http://www.wmrecorder.com/
> >
> >gary
> >
> >
> >>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a
>video you
> >>can not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong
>but that
> >>is my understanding for streaming cindy
> >>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
> >>Media Resources Librarian
> >>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
> >>University of St. Thomas
> >>phone (651) 962-5464
> >>fax (651) 962-5406
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mike Tribby [mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
> >>To: 'videolib@library.berkeley.edu'
> >>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> >>
> >>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
>item owned
> >
> >>by the library and just put on reserve. "
> >>
> >>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
>probably not
> >
> >>a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
>negative effect
> >>(and have yet to understand what it would be, except for in the
> >>situation Jessica described with not owning the copy)."
> >>
> >>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve
>if it is
> >>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be
>people
> >>making copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of
>their dorm
> >>rooms" or other abodes and doing whatever they pleased with
>the copies.
> >>
> >>
> >>Mike Tribby
> >>Senior Cataloger
> >>Quality Books Inc.
> >>The Best of America's Independent Presses
> >>
> >>mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Brewer, Michael [mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
> >>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> >>
> >>
> >>All,
> >>
> >>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the
>4 factors?
> >>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against
>the use (I
> >>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use.
> This does
> >>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by
>the law), but
> >
> >>I wanted to check with others.
> >>
> >>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of
>borrowed
> >>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However,
>if one
> >>weighs each case individually, as one should, then this
>would weigh
> >>against the effect of the use, and might tip the scales
>against fair
> >use.
> >>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it
>would were the
> >>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense
>is that
> >>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for
>streaming
> >>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a
>restricted
> >>population for educational purposes and is password
>protected and
> >>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright
>holder, it is
> >>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see
>that
> >>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would
>be, except
> >>for in the situation Jessica described with not owning the
>copy).
> >>
> >>mb
> >>
> >>Michael Brewer
> >>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>University of
> >>Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055
>Tucson, AZ
> >>85721
> >>Voice: 520.307.2771
> >>Fax: 520.621.9733
> >>brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
> >>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>Susan
> >>Albrecht
> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
> >>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> >>
> >>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to
>stream a
> >>film **that the institution owns** and then password protect
>it and
> >>make it available to only a particular class of students,
>than it would
> >
> >>be to have it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?,
>that it's
> >>okay to place
> >>
> >>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us
>have done
> >>in
> >>
> >>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it
>on reserve.
> >
> >>The students in that class would have to come into the library
> >>
> >>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
> >>Streaming
> >>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes
>the WAY in
> >
> >>which those same students view the film. In the streaming
>situation,
> >>no
> >>
> >>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm
> >>scratching my head a little here about why this is worse
>than the
> >>old-fashioned reserve system.
> >>
> >>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no
>different
> >>than the faculty member swinging by the library, checking
>out the video
> >
> >>and showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why
>this would
> >>cut into sales; the institution still has to buy the
>original copy that
> >
> >>it's going to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at
>a very
> >>small institution in this response, though, and you're
>really thinking
> >>of large universities?
> >>
> >>Susan at Wabash
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more
>than a
> >> >stretch and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use
>would
> >> >allow the
> >>streaming
> >> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders
>permission.
> >> >I
> >>think
> >> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and
>assumes that if
> >> >you
> >>only
> >> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use
>it is OK.
> >>Taken to
> >> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream
>whole books
> >>under
> >> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea
>of 3
> >> >minutes
> >>or no
> >> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin
>air. What I
> >>always
> >> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS
>legal and
> >>covered
> >> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and
>contact the
> >> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that
>this is your
> >
> >> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While
>I am not a
> >>big
> >> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff ,
>the truth is
> >>small
> >> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much
>legal action (
> >>though
> >> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an
>academic
> >> >institution).
> >> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are
>streamed into a
> >> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to
>survive. The
> >>average
> >> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at
>a steep
> >>discount
> >> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school
>that buys it
> >>from
> >> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all
>over its
> >>entire
> >> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance
>different
> >>campuses of
> >> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always
>interlibrary
> >>loan)
> >> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies.
>What if
> >> >the school just borrowed a legal copy from the local
>rental store and
> >>digitized
> >> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now
>I think we
> >>are
> >> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when
>we have
> >> >rights
> >>and
> >> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke
>by Goddard
> >>that
> >> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and
>everyone
> >> >would watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of
>thinking
> >> >that you
> >>can
> >> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day
>everyone will
> >>want to
> >> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
> >> >
> >> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these
>things and
> >>have
> >> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus
>systems to
> >> >use
> >>our
> >> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a
>single class
> >> >but
> >>this
> >> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both
>classes and
> >>students
> >> >in those classes.
> >> >
> >> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to
>put out ANY
> >>small
> >> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic
>films we
> >>COULD
> >> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them.
>While streaming
> >>should
> >> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream
>under your
> >>scenario
> >> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of
>these films
> >>out.
> >> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African
>film and I
> >>can't
> >> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors
>that I
> >>produced on
> >> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a
>market. I
> >> >understand we really all want to work together so that
>everyone gets
> >>what
> >> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole
>films
> >> >without compensation to rights holders is almost
>guaranteed to make
> >> >fewer and
> >>fewer
> >> >small films legally available
> >> >
> >> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
> >> >Because of lack of market
> >>
> >>Susan Albrecht
> >>Acquisitions Coordinator
> >>Wabash College Lilly Library
> >>Crawfordsville, IN
> >>x6216
> >>albrechs@wabash.edu
> >>
> >>**********************************************************************
> >>*
> >>*
> >>*********
> >>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a
>choice."--Neil
> >>Peart
> >>**********************************************************************
> >>*
> >>*
> >>*********
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Videolib mailing list
> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Videolib mailing list
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> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Videolib mailing list
> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Videolib mailing list
> >>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
> >
> >Gary Handman
> >Director
> >Media Resources Center
> >Moffitt Library
> >UC Berkeley
> >ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
> >
> >*****
> >
> >"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> > all of life presents itself as an immense
>accumulation of
> >spectacles."
> > --Guy Debord
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Videolib mailing list
> >Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Videolib mailing list
> >Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>
>===========
>Jeff Clark
>Director
>Media Resources MSC 1701
>James Madison University
>Harrisonburg VA 22807
>clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
>540-568-6770 (phone)
>540-568-7037 (fax)
>_______________________________________________
>Videolib mailing list
>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Videolib mailing list
>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

*****

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
spectacles."
--Guy Debord

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