RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

Mark Kopp (iu8film@iu08.org)
Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:40:26 -0500

[Care to elaborate on these protective technologies?]

Hi Jeff,

One example of such protective technologies, is from Niche Solutions (
1-610-391-9389 Earl or Phil...great guys ).

They take a video, in Quicktime format, and insert a media "key", into
the file via the Quicktime software. They provide their own proprietary
media player that connects to the Internet, when opening the video file.
The player, encoded with the patron's individual account information,
then checks to see if there is a current reservation for the particular
viewer/patron. The length of reservation, number of concurrent views,
etc can all be controlled. If you don't have a reservation to view the
content, you cannot open the file. If you wish to set the file to only
be viewed by one person at one time, you can certainly do so. The only
"downside", if you wish to call it a downside, is the need for an
Internet connection to open the file. The vendor has gone to great
measure to ensure the protection of "further downstream dissemination".
Note that this software accompanies their media center software, and
includes the web "portion" as well as the database and the download
controls. It rolls out quite easily, and product can be delivered via
your own servers, or through "rented" space on the net (such as
Speedera, etc).

If you have more questions, feel free to contact me or the vendor.

Mark
******************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
clarkjc@jmu.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:33 AM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

Mark, everyone...

Care to elaborate on these protective technologies? I'm in need of
education in this area myself. And would love to learn of a solution
that might work for my own situation....

Jeff

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:47 -0500
>From: "Mark Kopp" <iu8film@iu08.org>
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>To: <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
>
>Very FEW bucks...the software suite is only $49.95
>
>Looks like there's a free demo too!
>
>That said, there ARE technologies that can protect
copyrighted "copies"
>from "further downstream dissemination". I'm not talking about
>"scrambling" when attempting to make copies either, such as
MacroVision
>(sp) or others. Being new, there are certainly some logistic
issues, but
>nonetheless, there ARE answers.
>
>Mark
>***********************************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
Gary Handman
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:35 PM
>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>
>You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if
you're cleaver
>enough and have a few bucks to spend
>
>Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder
>http://www.wmrecorder.com/
>
>gary
>
>
>>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a
video you
>>can not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong
but that
>>is my understanding for streaming cindy
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
>>Media Resources Librarian
>>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
>>University of St. Thomas
>>phone (651) 962-5464
>>fax (651) 962-5406
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Tribby [mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
>>To: 'videolib@library.berkeley.edu'
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
item owned
>
>>by the library and just put on reserve. "
>>
>>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
probably not
>
>>a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
negative effect
>>(and have yet to understand what it would be, except for in the
>>situation Jessica described with not owning the copy)."
>>
>>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve
if it is
>>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be
people
>>making copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of
their dorm
>>rooms" or other abodes and doing whatever they pleased with
the copies.
>>
>>
>>Mike Tribby
>>Senior Cataloger
>>Quality Books Inc.
>>The Best of America's Independent Presses
>>
>>mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brewer, Michael [mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu]
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>
>>All,
>>
>>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the
4 factors?
>>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against
the use (I
>>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use.
This does
>>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by
the law), but
>
>>I wanted to check with others.
>>
>>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of
borrowed
>>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However,
if one
>>weighs each case individually, as one should, then this
would weigh
>>against the effect of the use, and might tip the scales
against fair
>use.
>>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it
would were the
>>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense
is that
>>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for
streaming
>>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a
restricted
>>population for educational purposes and is password
protected and
>>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright
holder, it is
>>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see
that
>>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would
be, except
>>for in the situation Jessica described with not owning the
copy).
>>
>>mb
>>
>>Michael Brewer
>>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
University of
>>Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055
Tucson, AZ
>>85721
>>Voice: 520.307.2771
>>Fax: 520.621.9733
>>brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
Susan
>>Albrecht
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to
stream a
>>film **that the institution owns** and then password protect
it and
>>make it available to only a particular class of students,
than it would
>
>>be to have it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?,
that it's
>>okay to place
>>
>>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us
have done
>>in
>>
>>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it
on reserve.
>
>>The students in that class would have to come into the library
>>
>>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
>>Streaming
>>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes
the WAY in
>
>>which those same students view the film. In the streaming
situation,
>>no
>>
>>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm
>>scratching my head a little here about why this is worse
than the
>>old-fashioned reserve system.
>>
>>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no
different
>>than the faculty member swinging by the library, checking
out the video
>
>>and showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why
this would
>>cut into sales; the institution still has to buy the
original copy that
>
>>it's going to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at
a very
>>small institution in this response, though, and you're
really thinking
>>of large universities?
>>
>>Susan at Wabash
>>
>>
>>
>>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more
than a
>> >stretch and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use
would
>> >allow the
>>streaming
>> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders
permission.
>> >I
>>think
>> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and
assumes that if
>> >you
>>only
>> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use
it is OK.
>>Taken to
>> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream
whole books
>>under
>> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea
of 3
>> >minutes
>>or no
>> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin
air. What I
>>always
>> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS
legal and
>>covered
>> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and
contact the
>> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that
this is your
>
>> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While
I am not a
>>big
>> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff ,
the truth is
>>small
>> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much
legal action (
>>though
>> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an
academic
>> >institution).
>> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are
streamed into a
>> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to
survive. The
>>average
>> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at
a steep
>>discount
>> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school
that buys it
>>from
>> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all
over its
>>entire
>> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance
different
>>campuses of
>> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always
interlibrary
>>loan)
>> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies.
What if
>> >the school just borrowed a legal copy from the local
rental store and
>>digitized
>> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now
I think we
>>are
>> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when
we have
>> >rights
>>and
>> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke
by Goddard
>>that
>> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and
everyone
>> >would watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of
thinking
>> >that you
>>can
>> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day
everyone will
>>want to
>> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
>> >
>> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these
things and
>>have
>> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus
systems to
>> >use
>>our
>> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a
single class
>> >but
>>this
>> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both
classes and
>>students
>> >in those classes.
>> >
>> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to
put out ANY
>>small
>> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic
films we
>>COULD
>> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them.
While streaming
>>should
>> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream
under your
>>scenario
>> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of
these films
>>out.
>> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African
film and I
>>can't
>> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors
that I
>>produced on
>> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a
market. I
>> >understand we really all want to work together so that
everyone gets
>>what
>> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole
films
>> >without compensation to rights holders is almost
guaranteed to make
>> >fewer and
>>fewer
>> >small films legally available
>> >
>> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
>> >Because of lack of market
>>
>>Susan Albrecht
>>Acquisitions Coordinator
>>Wabash College Lilly Library
>>Crawfordsville, IN
>>x6216
>>albrechs@wabash.edu
>>
>>**********************************************************************
>>*
>>*
>>*********
>>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a
choice."--Neil
>>Peart
>>**********************************************************************
>>*
>>*
>>*********
>>
>>
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>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
>*****
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense
accumulation of
>spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
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>
>
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===========
Jeff Clark
Director
Media Resources MSC 1701
James Madison University
Harrisonburg VA 22807
clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
540-568-6770 (phone)
540-568-7037 (fax)
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