RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

7 (clarkjc@jmu.edu)
Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:32:56 -0500

Mark, everyone...

Care to elaborate on these protective technologies? I'm in
need of education in this area myself. And would love to learn
of a solution that might work for my own situation....

Jeff

---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:47 -0500
>From: "Mark Kopp" <iu8film@iu08.org>
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>To: <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
>
>Very FEW bucks...the software suite is only $49.95
>
>Looks like there's a free demo too!
>
>That said, there ARE technologies that can protect
copyrighted "copies"
>from "further downstream dissemination". I'm not talking about
>"scrambling" when attempting to make copies either, such as
MacroVision
>(sp) or others. Being new, there are certainly some logistic
issues, but
>nonetheless, there ARE answers.
>
>Mark
>***********************************************
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
Gary Handman
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:35 PM
>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>
>You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if
you're cleaver
>enough and have a few bucks to spend
>
>Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder
>http://www.wmrecorder.com/
>
>gary
>
>
>>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a
video you
>>can not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong
but that
>>is my understanding for streaming cindy
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
>>Media Resources Librarian
>>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
>>University of St. Thomas
>>phone (651) 962-5464
>>fax (651) 962-5406
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Tribby [mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
>>To: 'videolib@library.berkeley.edu'
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
item owned
>
>>by the library and just put on reserve. "
>>
>>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
probably not
>
>>a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
negative effect
>>(and have yet to understand what it would be, except for in the
>>situation Jessica described with not owning the copy)."
>>
>>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve
if it is
>>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be
people
>>making copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of
their dorm
>>rooms" or other abodes and doing whatever they pleased with
the copies.
>>
>>
>>Mike Tribby
>>Senior Cataloger
>>Quality Books Inc.
>>The Best of America's Independent Presses
>>
>>mailto:mike.tribby@quality-books.com
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brewer, Michael [mailto:brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu]
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>
>>All,
>>
>>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the
4 factors?
>>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against
the use (I
>>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use.
This does
>>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by
the law), but
>
>>I wanted to check with others.
>>
>>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of
borrowed
>>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However,
if one
>>weighs each case individually, as one should, then this
would weigh
>>against the effect of the use, and might tip the scales
against fair
>use.
>>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it
would were the
>>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense
is that
>>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for
streaming
>>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a
restricted
>>population for educational purposes and is password
protected and
>>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright
holder, it is
>>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see
that
>>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would
be, except
>>for in the situation Jessica described with not owning the
copy).
>>
>>mb
>>
>>Michael Brewer
>>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
University of
>>Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055
Tucson, AZ
>>85721
>>Voice: 520.307.2771
>>Fax: 520.621.9733
>>brewerm@u.library.arizona.edu
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
Susan
>>Albrecht
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>
>>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to
stream a
>>film **that the institution owns** and then password protect
it and
>>make it available to only a particular class of students,
than it would
>
>>be to have it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?,
that it's
>>okay to place
>>
>>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us
have done
>>in
>>
>>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it
on reserve.
>
>>The students in that class would have to come into the library
>>
>>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
>>Streaming
>>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes
the WAY in
>
>>which those same students view the film. In the streaming
situation,
>>no
>>
>>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm
>>scratching my head a little here about why this is worse
than the
>>old-fashioned reserve system.
>>
>>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no
different
>>than the faculty member swinging by the library, checking
out the video
>
>>and showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why
this would
>>cut into sales; the institution still has to buy the
original copy that
>
>>it's going to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at
a very
>>small institution in this response, though, and you're
really thinking
>>of large universities?
>>
>>Susan at Wabash
>>
>>
>>
>>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more
than a
>> >stretch and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use
would
>> >allow the
>>streaming
>> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders
permission.
>> >I
>>think
>> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and
assumes that if
>> >you
>>only
>> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use
it is OK.
>>Taken to
>> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream
whole books
>>under
>> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea
of 3
>> >minutes
>>or no
>> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin
air. What I
>>always
>> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS
legal and
>>covered
>> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and
contact the
>> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that
this is your
>
>> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While
I am not a
>>big
>> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff ,
the truth is
>>small
>> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much
legal action (
>>though
>> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an
academic
>> >institution).
>> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are
streamed into a
>> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to
survive. The
>>average
>> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at
a steep
>>discount
>> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school
that buys it
>>from
>> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all
over its
>>entire
>> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance
different
>>campuses of
>> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always
interlibrary
>>loan)
>> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies.
What if
>> >the school just borrowed a legal copy from the local
rental store and
>>digitized
>> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now
I think we
>>are
>> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when
we have
>> >rights
>>and
>> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke
by Goddard
>>that
>> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and
everyone
>> >would watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of
thinking
>> >that you
>>can
>> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day
everyone will
>>want to
>> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
>> >
>> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these
things and
>>have
>> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus
systems to
>> >use
>>our
>> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a
single class
>> >but
>>this
>> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both
classes and
>>students
>> >in those classes.
>> >
>> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to
put out ANY
>>small
>> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic
films we
>>COULD
>> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them.
While streaming
>>should
>> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream
under your
>>scenario
>> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of
these films
>>out.
>> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African
film and I
>>can't
>> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors
that I
>>produced on
>> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a
market. I
>> >understand we really all want to work together so that
everyone gets
>>what
>> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole
films
>> >without compensation to rights holders is almost
guaranteed to make
>> >fewer and
>>fewer
>> >small films legally available
>> >
>> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
>> >Because of lack of market
>>
>>Susan Albrecht
>>Acquisitions Coordinator
>>Wabash College Lilly Library
>>Crawfordsville, IN
>>x6216
>>albrechs@wabash.edu
>>
>>***********************************************************************
>>*
>>*********
>>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a
choice."--Neil
>>Peart
>>***********************************************************************
>>*
>>*********
>>
>>
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>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
>*****
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense
accumulation of
>spectacles."
> --Guy Debord
>
>
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===========
Jeff Clark
Director
Media Resources MSC 1701
James Madison University
Harrisonburg VA 22807
clarkjc@jmu.edu (email)
540-568-6770 (phone)
540-568-7037 (fax)
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