RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

) (
Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:49:37 -0500

And look at this list, too:

There are even a couple free apps in the bunch....


---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:34:54 -0800
>From: Gary Handman <>
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if you're
>cleaver enough and have a few bucks to spend
>Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder
>>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a
video you can
>>not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong but
that is my
>>understanding for streaming
>>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
>>Media Resources Librarian
>>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
>>University of St. Thomas
>>phone (651) 962-5464
>>fax (651) 962-5406
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Tribby []
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
>>To: ''
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
item owned by
>>the library and just put on reserve. "
>>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
probably not a
>>fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that negative
effect (and have
>>yet to understand what it would be, except for in the
situation Jessica
>>described with not owning the copy)."
>>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve
if it is
>>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be
people making
>>copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of their dorm
rooms" or other
>>abodes and doing whatever they pleased with the copies.
>>Mike Tribby
>>Senior Cataloger
>>Quality Books Inc.
>>The Best of America's Independent Presses
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brewer, Michael []
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
>>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the
4 factors?
>>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against
the use (I
>>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use.
This does
>>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by
the law), but
>>I wanted to check with others.
>>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of
>>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However,
if one weighs
>>each case individually, as one should, then this would weigh
against the
>>effect of the use, and might tip the scales against fair use.
>>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it
would were the
>>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense
is that
>>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for
>>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a
>>population for educational purposes and is password
protected and
>>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright
holder, it is
>>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see
>>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would
be, except for
>>in the situation Jessica described with not owning the copy).
>>Michael Brewer
>>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>>University of Arizona Library A210
>>1510 E. University
>>P.O. Box 210055
>>Tucson, AZ 85721
>>Voice: 520.307.2771
>>Fax: 520.621.9733
>>-----Original Message-----
>>[] On Behalf Of
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to
stream a
>>**that the institution owns** and then password protect it
and make it
>>available to only a particular class of students, than it
would be to
>>it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?, that it's
okay to place
>>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us
have done in
>>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it on
>>reserve. The students in that class would have to come into
the library
>>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
>>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes
the WAY in
>>which those same students view the film. In the streaming
situation, no
>>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess
I'm scratching
>>head a little here about why this is worse than the
>>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no
>>the faculty member swinging by the library, checking out the
video and
>>showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why this
would cut
>>sales; the institution still has to buy the original copy
that it's
>>to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at a very small
>>in this response, though, and you're really thinking of large
>>Susan at Wabash
>>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more
than a stretch
>> >and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use would
allow the
>> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders
permission. I
>> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and
assumes that if you
>> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use
it is OK.
>>Taken to
>> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream
whole books
>> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea
of 3 minutes
>>or no
>> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin
air. What I
>> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS
legal and
>> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and
contact the
>> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that
this is your
>> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While
I am not a
>> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff ,
the truth is
>> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much
legal action (
>> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an
>> >institution).
>> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are
streamed into a
>> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to
survive. The
>> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at
a steep
>> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school
that buys it
>> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all
over its
>> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance
>>campuses of
>> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always
>> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies.
What if the
>> >school just borrowed a legal copy from the local rental
store and
>> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now
I think we
>> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when
we have rights
>> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke
by Goddard
>> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and
everyone would
>> >watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of
thinking that you
>> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day
everyone will
>>want to
>> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
>> >
>> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these
things and
>> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus
systems to use
>> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a
single class but
>> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both
classes and
>> >in those classes.
>> >
>> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to
put out ANY
>> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic
films we
>> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them.
While streaming
>> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream
under your
>> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of
these films
>> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African
film and I
>> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors
that I
>>produced on
>> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a
market. I
>> >understand we really all want to work together so that
everyone gets
>> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole
films without
>> >compensation to rights holders is almost guaranteed to
make fewer and
>> >small films legally available
>> >
>> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
>> >Because of lack of market
>>Susan Albrecht
>>Acquisitions Coordinator
>>Wabash College Lilly Library
>>Crawfordsville, IN
>>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a
choice."--Neil Peart
>>Videolib mailing list
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>Gary Handman
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense
accumulation of
> --Guy Debord
>Videolib mailing list

Jeff Clark
Media Resources MSC 1701
James Madison University
Harrisonburg VA 22807 (email)
540-568-6770 (phone)
540-568-7037 (fax)
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