Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights

Jerry Notaro (
Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:26:20 -0500

It's about as difficult as finding an Eminem bootleg in a NYC subway
station. You aren't supposed to be able to, but it can be done fairly
easily. But the quality would not be worth copying.


> You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a video you can
> not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong but that is my
> understanding for streaming
> cindy
> __________________________________________________
> Cindy Badilla-Melendez
> Media Resources Librarian
> O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
> University of St. Thomas
> phone (651) 962-5464
> fax (651) 962-5406
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tribby []
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: ''
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> "the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the item owned by
> the library and just put on reserve. "
> "If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is probably not a
> fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that negative effect (and have
> yet to understand what it would be, except for in the situation Jessica
> described with not owning the copy)."
> Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve if it is
> streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be people making
> copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of their dorm rooms" or other
> abodes and doing whatever they pleased with the copies.
> Mike Tribby
> Senior Cataloger
> Quality Books Inc.
> The Best of America's Independent Presses
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brewer, Michael []
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> All,
> What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the 4 factors?
> Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against the use (I
> would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use. This does
> not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by the law), but
> I wanted to check with others.
> I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of borrowed
> copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However, if one weighs
> each case individually, as one should, then this would weigh against the
> effect of the use, and might tip the scales against fair use.
> Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
> item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense is that
> effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for streaming
> entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a restricted
> population for educational purposes and is password protected and
> streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
> probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
> negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would be, except for
> in the situation Jessica described with not owning the copy).
> mb
> Michael Brewer
> Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
> University of Arizona Library A210
> 1510 E. University
> P.O. Box 210055
> Tucson, AZ 85721
> Voice: 520.307.2771
> Fax: 520.621.9733
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On Behalf Of Susan
> Albrecht
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
> I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to stream a
> film
> **that the institution owns** and then password protect it and make it
> available to only a particular class of students, than it would be to
> have
> it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?, that it's okay to place
> any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us have done in
> the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it on
> reserve. The students in that class would have to come into the library
> during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
> Streaming
> and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes the WAY in
> which those same students view the film. In the streaming situation, no
> fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm scratching
> my
> head a little here about why this is worse than the old-fashioned
> reserve
> system.
> Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no different
> than
> the faculty member swinging by the library, checking out the video and
> showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why this would cut
> into
> sales; the institution still has to buy the original copy that it's
> going
> to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at a very small
> institution
> in this response, though, and you're really thinking of large
> universities?
> Susan at Wabash
> At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more than a stretch
>> and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use would allow the
> streaming
>> an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders permission. I
> think
>> this goes against decades of accepted copyright and assumes that if you
> only
>> violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use it is OK.
> Taken to
>> its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream whole books
> under
>> copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea of 3 minutes
> or no
>> more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin air. What I
> always
>> like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS legal and
> covered
>> than you should have the courage of your convictions and contact the
>> copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that this is your
>> understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While I am not a
> big
>> fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff , the truth is
> small
>> companies like Kino don't have the resources for much legal action (
> though
>> we have taken some none at this point has been against an academic
>> institution).
>> As for what a company would "lose" if its films are streamed into a
>> classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to survive. The
> average
>> Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at a steep
> discount
>> If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school that buys it
> from
>> Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all over its
> entire
>> system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance different
> campuses of
>> an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always interlibrary
> loan)
>> and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies. What if the
>> school just borrowed a legal copy from the local rental store and
> digitized
>> that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now I think we
> are
>> more than open to working with schools on streaming when we have rights
> and
>> can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke by Goddard
> that
>> eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and everyone would
>> watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of thinking that you
> can
>> digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day everyone will
> want to
>> digitize it from the SAME copy.
>> For the record I personally take a liberal view of these things and
> have
>> allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus systems to use
> our
>> films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a single class but
> this
>> is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both classes and
> students
>> in those classes.
>> It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to put out ANY
> small
>> film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic films we
>> put out if only we knew enough people would buy them. While streaming
> should
>> theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream under your
> scenario
>> it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of these films
> out.
>> As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African film and I
> can't
>> get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors that I
> produced on
>> video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a market. I
>> understand we really all want to work together so that everyone gets
> what
>> They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole films without
>> compensation to rights holders is almost guaranteed to make fewer and
> fewer
>> small films legally available
>> OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
>> Because of lack of market
> Susan Albrecht
> Acquisitions Coordinator
> Wabash College Lilly Library
> Crawfordsville, IN
> x6216
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