RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights

Gary Handman (
Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:34:54 -0800

You most certainly can make copies of streamed video, if you're
cleaver enough and have a few bucks to spend

Check out WM Recorder and RM recorder


>You can't make copies of streaming videos, when you stream a video you can
>not download it meaning you can't copy it. I maybe wrong but that is my
>understanding for streaming
>Cindy Badilla-Melendez
>Media Resources Librarian
>O'Shaughnessy-Frey Library,
>University of St. Thomas
>phone (651) 962-5464
>fax (651) 962-5406
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Tribby []
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:46 AM
>To: ''
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>"the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the item owned by
>the library and just put on reserve. "
>"If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is probably not a
>fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that negative effect (and have
>yet to understand what it would be, except for in the situation Jessica
>described with not owning the copy)."
>Streaming is not identical to placing the feature on reserve if it is
>streamed outside the library. The negative effect would be people making
>copies of the streaming video "in the comfort of their dorm rooms" or other
>abodes and doing whatever they pleased with the copies.
>Mike Tribby
>Senior Cataloger
>Quality Books Inc.
>The Best of America's Independent Presses
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brewer, Michael []
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:59 AM
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>What are others' thoughts about fair use and weighing of the 4 factors?
>Jessica seems to believe that if one factor weighs against the use (I
>would not call that a violation), then that nixes fair use. This does
>not seem a widely held conviction to me (nor supported by the law), but
>I wanted to check with others.
>I do agree with her point that the digitizing, or using of borrowed
>copies for fair use purposes would be a problem. However, if one weighs
>each case individually, as one should, then this would weigh against the
>effect of the use, and might tip the scales against fair use.
>Otherwise, the use would be identical, in effect, as it would were the
>item owned by the library and just put on reserve. My sense is that
>effect is really the critical factor in this debate (for streaming
>entire films as long as the use is limited to a class or a restricted
>population for educational purposes and is password protected and
>streamed). If the use negatively affects the copyright holder, it is
>probably not a fair use. However, in many cases I don't see that
>negative effect (and have yet to understand what it would be, except for
>in the situation Jessica described with not owning the copy).
>Michael Brewer
>Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian
>University of Arizona Library A210
>1510 E. University
>P.O. Box 210055
>Tucson, AZ 85721
>Voice: 520.307.2771
>Fax: 520.621.9733
>-----Original Message-----
>[] On Behalf Of Susan
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] question on copyrights
>I think the question, though, Jessica, is why is it WORSE to stream a
>**that the institution owns** and then password protect it and make it
>available to only a particular class of students, than it would be to
>it on reserve? (There is no argument, correct?, that it's okay to place
>any video a library owns on reserve?) IOW, what most of us have done in
>the past is take that VHS or DVD that we *own* and place it on
>reserve. The students in that class would have to come into the library
>during the hours that we're open, check it out and view it here.
>and making it available, on a restricted basis, only changes the WAY in
>which those same students view the film. In the streaming situation, no
>fewer copies of the film are being purchased. So I guess I'm scratching
>head a little here about why this is worse than the old-fashioned
>Again, if the film were streamed into a classroom, it's no different
>the faculty member swinging by the library, checking out the video and
>showing it in his/her classroom. I just don't see why this would cut
>sales; the institution still has to buy the original copy that it's
>to stream. Maybe I'm giving away my position at a very small
>in this response, though, and you're really thinking of large
>Susan at Wabash
>At 04:20 PM 2/21/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >I too appreciate the discussion but do think it is more than a stretch
> >and potentially dangerous to suggest that fair use would allow the
> >an an entire dramatic film WITHOUT the copyright holders permission. I
> >this goes against decades of accepted copyright and assumes that if you
> >violate ONE element of the 4 factors listed for Fair Use it is OK.
>Taken to
> >its extreme it would also allow to digitize and stream whole books
> >copyright without permission etc. I don't think the idea of 3 minutes
>or no
> >more than 10 percent of a work was developed out of thin air. What I
> >like to respond in these cases is that if you feel this IS legal and
> >than you should have the courage of your convictions and contact the
> >copyright holder be it Kino or Disney and tell them that this is your
> >understanding of the law and you are going to do it. While I am not a
> >fan of how Disney and over major studios handle stuff , the truth is
> >companies like Kino don't have the resources for much legal action (
> >we have taken some none at this point has been against an academic
> >institution).
> >As for what a company would "lose" if its films are streamed into a
> >classroom, the simple answer is the revenue we need to survive. The
> >Kino film costs $30 and most are bought by wholesalers at a steep
> >If Kino sells a copy of Metropolis for $17 to a school that buys it
> >Ingram or Amazon etc and then streams it to classes all over its
> >system we simply can't survive. We expect for instance different
>campuses of
> >an institution to buy their own copy ( though can always interlibrary
> >and on very popular films a school might buy a few copies. What if the
> >school just borrowed a legal copy from the local rental store and
> >that for streaming? I assume you can see the problem. Now I think we
> >more than open to working with schools on streaming when we have rights
> >can have some limits on the terms. There was an old joke by Goddard
> >eventually Hollywood would just make one film a year and everyone would
> >watch that, well my fear of the slippery slope of thinking that you
> >digitize whole films under "Fair Use" is that some day everyone will
>want to
> >digitize it from the SAME copy.
> >
> >For the record I personally take a liberal view of these things and
> >allowed several schools that have closed circuit campus systems to use
> >films AT NO EXTRA charge if it is just being sent to a single class but
> >is a lot different from giving unlimited access to both classes and
> >in those classes.
> >
> >It is already difficult and getting harder by the day to put out ANY
> >film on DVD. There are so many wonderful foreign & classic films we
> >put out if only we knew enough people would buy them. While streaming
> >theoretically be some kind of additional revenue stream under your
> >it would almost certainly be the death of putting any of these films
> >As it stands I doubt we will ever put out another African film and I
> >get Kino to release the 3 silent films by women directors that I
>produced on
> >video on ONE DVD for $30 because their is not enough of a market. I
> >understand we really all want to work together so that everyone gets
> >They need but suggesting that schools can digitize whole films without
> >compensation to rights holders is almost guaranteed to make fewer and
> >small films legally available
> >
> >OK long rant sorry still jet lagged
> >Because of lack of market
>Susan Albrecht
>Acquisitions Coordinator
>Wabash College Lilly Library
>Crawfordsville, IN
>"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."--Neil Peart
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Gary Handman
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley


"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
--Guy Debord

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