RE: [Videolib] re: DVD-R - not a stable format - Much more stable,

Jonathan Miller (jmiller@frif.com)
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:32:42 -0500

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I would add a few points:

1) Making a DVD-R is, by definition at this point, a short cut.
2) The question might better be put, I think, are the technical trade
offs worth it, (both to the vendor and to the customer), given that it is
still not economically feasible for distributors to make "proper" DVDs
(DVD-Video, like you rent at Blockbuster) of most smaller, more specialized
or "non-theatrical" titles. (And, I know of no non-theatrical distributor
that will no longer SELL VHS tapes, only customers who will no longer BUY
them).
3) Within the world of DVD-R's, one is still and always will be, I
suspect (as in most businesses), making choices about what "Short cuts," or
trade offs, to make. i.e. one can still easily spend a fortune on encoding,
or a lot, or a modest amount, or a little, or next to nothing. What type of
authoring system is used, how elaborate the menus or choices are, whether to
add the close captioning file (which may require a fee to the closed
captioning facility as well as potentially extra to the authoring facility
too), etc. For instance, to give one very small example: when we make a DVD
(DVD-R), we usually (but not always) make a menu and provide scene
selections. However, if we go above a certain # of scene selections, I think
it is now seven (7) [it used to be eight] our lab charges us more for each
additional scene selection, as it involves extra authoring work. How many
should we do? [keep in mind we have films running up to six hours in
length!] At what point are we "Taking a short cut" and at what point are we
making a fair and reasonable decision respecting the "Highest quality" that
we do hope we provide to our customers?
4) There are many other decisions along the way where one can very
easily spend money, sometimes more than is "necessary," and every
distributor must make those decisions, and does, all the time. And some make
different decisions at different points than others.
5) So, come on Jerry, name names. I'm not trying to embarrass anyone:
If we are on your list, I would like to know. And, more importantly, I would
like to know what to do better (Within reason!). (thus, please also be
specific if you can about what to do (or even better: who needs to do what!)
to meet your criteria).




Jonathan Miller, President
First Run/Icarus Films, Inc.
32 Court Street, 21st Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201 USA

tel 1.718.488.8900
fax 1.718.488.8642
www.frif.com
jmiller@frif.com

_____

From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:50 PM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re: DVD-R - not a stable format - Much more stable,
if shortcuts not taken

First, thanks to Mark Kopp for posting his article on this topic, it is very
thorough and should help a lot of people.

Also I wanted to add a perspective that I've maintained ever since CTC
released its first DVD. No customer needs to have any concerns when ordering
DVDs from CTC, each is produced with the highest quality.

Some do take shortcuts in creating DVDs, and, yes, now those shortcuts are
beginning to surface, as educators or patrons begin to use the DVDs of
lesser quality. However, those DVDs of lesser quality should not be used to
frighten customers away. As a producing-distributor, I never take shortcuts
when it comes to creating DVDs or Digital Files. Some may take shortcuts by
not creating menus for their DVDs, some may use less expensive DVDs as
masters, some may not use the best machines to duplicate their DVDs, some
may not encode the DVDs at the highest quality. These are key reasons why a
lot of those DVDs of lesser quality don't work on DVD players. Taking
shortcuts may save them some money upfront, but in the long run it's not a
good decision, it's not good business. Customers can be assured that CTC
takes no shortcuts when producing its DVDs.

As this article confirmed, creating a DVD is not a 100% guarantee that it
will work on every player, and for that reason CTC will replace any DVD that
may not work for up to a year Free of Charge; however, because of the high
standards we use in creating our DVDs, our utilization % is extremely close
to 100%.
Customers can increase the %s by working with vendors who don't take
shortcuts and who guarantee a replacement for any possible incompatibility.

A great point Chip. Unfortunately, you are the exception. But your company's
dedication to quality and service is well known, and has served you well.

Jerry

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would add a few points: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
tab-stops:list .5in'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:Arial=
;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Making a DVD-R is, by definition at this point, a short cut. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
tab-stops:list .5in'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:Arial=
;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>The question might better be put, I think, are the technical =
trade
offs worth it, (both to the vendor and to the customer), given that it =
is still
not economically feasible for distributors to make &#8220;proper&#8221; =
DVDs
(DVD-Video, like you rent at Blockbuster) of most smaller, more =
specialized or &#8220;non-theatrical&#8221;
titles. (And, I know of no non-theatrical <span =
class=3DGramE>distributor that
will</span> no longer SELL VHS tapes, only customers who will no longer =
BUY
them).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
tab-stops:list .5in'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:Arial=
;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Within the world of DVD-R&#8217;s, one is still and always =
will be,
I suspect (as in most businesses), making choices about what =
&#8220;Short cuts,&#8221;
or trade offs, to make. <span class=3DGramE>i.e</span>. one can still =
easily spend
a fortune on encoding, or a lot, or a modest amount, or a little, or =
next to
nothing. What type of authoring system is used, how elaborate the menus =
or
choices are, whether to add the close captioning file (which may require =
a fee
to the closed captioning facility as well as potentially extra to the =
<span
class=3DGramE>authoring <span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>facility</span>
too), etc. For instance, to give one very small example: when we make a =
DVD
(DVD-R), we usually (but not always) make a menu and provide scene =
selections. However,
if we go above a certain # of scene selections, I think it is now seven =
(7) [it
used to be eight] our lab charges us more for each additional scene =
selection,
as it involves extra authoring work. How many should we do? [<span =
class=3DGramE>keep</span>
in mind we have films running up to six hours in length!] At what point =
are we &#8220;Taking
a short cut&#8221; and at what point are we making a fair and reasonable
decision respecting the &#8220;Highest quality&#8221; that we do hope we
provide to our customers? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
tab-stops:list .5in'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:Arial=
;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>There are many other decisions along the way where one can =
very easily
spend money, sometimes more than is &#8220;necessary,&#8221; and every
distributor must make those decisions, and does, all the time. And some =
make
different decisions at different points than others. <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;
tab-stops:list .5in'><![if !supportLists]><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;mso-fareast-font-family:Arial=
;
color:navy'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5)<font size=3D1 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>So, come on Jerry, name names. I&#8217;m not trying to =
embarrass anyone:
<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>If we are on your list, I =
would like
to know. And, more importantly, I would like to know what to do better =
(Within
reason!). (<span class=3DGramE>thus</span>, please also be specific if =
you can
about what to do (or even better: who needs to do what!) to meet your =
criteria).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Jonathan Miller,
President<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>First Run/Icarus =
Films,
Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>32 Court Street, =
21st
Floor<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Brooklyn</span></font></st1:City><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>, <st1:State w:st=3D"on">NY</st1:State> =
<st1:PostalCode
w:st=3D"on">11201</st1:PostalCode> <st1:country-region =
w:st=3D"on">USA</st1:country-region></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>tel =
1.718.488.8900<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>fax =
1.718.488.8642<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>www.frif.com<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>=
jmiller@frif.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jerry Notaro<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, February =
20, 2006
3:50 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">videolib@library.berkeley.edu</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Videolib] =
re: DVD-R
- not a stable format - Much more stable, if shortcuts not =
taken</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>First,
thanks to Mark Kopp for posting his article on this topic, it is very =
thorough
and should help a lot of people.<br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Also I wanted to add a perspective that =
I've
maintained ever since CTC released its first DVD. No customer needs to =
have any
concerns when ordering DVDs from CTC, each is produced with the highest
quality.<br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Some do take shortcuts in creating DVDs, =
and,
yes, now those shortcuts are beginning to surface, as educators or =
patrons
begin to use the DVDs of lesser quality. However, those DVDs of lesser =
quality
should not be used to frighten customers away. As a =
producing-distributor, I
never take shortcuts when it comes to creating DVDs or Digital Files. =
Some may
take shortcuts by not creating menus for their DVDs, some may use less
expensive DVDs as masters, some may not use the best machines to =
duplicate
their DVDs, some may not encode the DVDs at the highest quality. These =
are key
reasons why a lot of those DVDs of lesser quality don't work on DVD =
players.
Taking shortcuts may save them some money upfront, but in the long run =
it's not
a good decision, it's not good business. Customers can be assured that =
CTC
takes no shortcuts when producing its DVDs.<br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As this article confirmed, creating a DVD =
is not
a 100% guarantee that it will work on every player, and for that reason =
CTC
will replace any DVD that may not work for up to a year Free of Charge;
however, because of the high standards we use in creating our DVDs, our
utilization % is extremely close to 100%.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Customers can increase the %s by =
working
with vendors who don't take shortcuts and who guarantee a replacement =
for any
possible incompatibility.<br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
A great point Chip. Unfortunately, you are the exception. But your
company&#8217;s dedication to quality and service is well known, and has =
served
you well.<br>
<br>
Jerry</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

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