RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Gary Handman (ghandman@library.berkeley.edu)
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:10:12 -0700

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I am completely sympathetic toward the concept of going to the fair use
battlements in support of educational mission. Pushing envelopes is
good! However: in this case, I don't think the envelop is all that
pushable. Just because an extracurricular group operates under the
auspices of an educational institution, or just because a work is screened
("performed/displayed") in a campus venue doesn't qualify the use as
fair. In this case, I it seems to me that the use treads on one of the
four tests of fair use, i.e. The effect on marketability. I ain't a
lawyer, certainly, and I ain't a flack for the producers/distributors
(certainly!), but I do think it's as much our obligation to respect the
intellectual property rights of producers as it is to go to the mat for our
clients.

Gary Handman

At 09:17 AM 9/21/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Let's look at the other side of this for a minute. Because we follow the
>guidelines very closely at Middlebury, the Hispanic Alliance on our campus
>will probably not be screening two Spanish-language movies for their group
>this month. The public performance fee was close to a thousand dollars for
>the two and the club doesn't have that much in their budget. It doesn't
>require too much imagination to see this as somewhat of an impediment to
>learning. Sure, they can see the film if it's a part of the Spanish 101
>curriculum, but they can't see it as a group unless they are able to shell
>out $1,000 for the privilege. Public performance prices for these sorts of
>programs are way too high. We expect to pay those prices for College-wide
>entertainment-related film series but shouldn't have to strain our budgets
>to offer realistic enrichment programs to language groups. We are being
>fair to the distributors, but are we being entirely fair to our students?
>Do we have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of
>more realistic "fair use"?
>
>Patty
>_________________________________
>Patricia Hornbeck
>Media Resources Development Coordinator
>Middlebury College
>Library and Information Services/#212
>Middlebury, VT 05753
>
>(802)443-2268 phone
>(802)443-5698 fax
>Email: hornbeck@middlebury.edu
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kim Crowley [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf
>Of Kim Crowley
>Sent: Tue, September 20, 2005 6:35 PM
>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question
>
>Thank you, Jessica. I did go the vidoelib archives when I had time and
>found reference to the article that is on the webpage of Library Video
>company.
><http://www.libraryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp>http://www.libraryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp
>I will send this on to my colleague at the community college.
>kc
>
>Kim Crowley, Director
>Flathead County Library phone: 406.758.5826
>247 First Avenue East fax: 406.758.5868
>Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
><mailto:kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us>kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
>-----Original Message-----
>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu on behalf of Jessica Rosner
>Sent: Tue 9/20/2005 2:28 PM
>To: videolib
>Cc:
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] another fair use question
>
>The law happens to very clear on this one. She can show the films to a CLASS
>of students ENROLLED in THAT class as part of the class instruction
>She can NOT show it to a student "group" or "club" only to students who are
>in her specific class.
>There is no such thing as an "educational" exemption. Only a VERY specific
>"face to face" teaching exemption. FYI this has NOTHING to do with "fair
>use" but with the above mentioned "face to face"
>
>I am bit tired but I am sure Gary or someone else can post the link or text
>for this in the copyright code
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We have a community college here with a multicultural and global issues
> > program. The person in charge of this program teaches classes and also
> does
> > some community events. She was under the impression (backed up by the
> media
> > center, which is not the library) that since she is in a teaching
> environment
> > and these films are to further the education of the students, that she does
> > not have to have any special rights for films like "Crash" and "Maria
> Full of
> > Grace." These are films that she would like to show her student group,
> call
> > "Global Friends". I called her when I saw "Crash" advertised in an email
> > newsletter and she has since pulled that film and substituted "Invisible
> > Children" for which she has permission. But she is still under the
> impression
> > that she can show "Crash" at a later date to the student club without
> > performance rights (and if they happen to bring their friends, that is
> okay).
> >
> > Can she show these films in the classroom without performance
> rights? Can she
> > show them to the Global Club and friends without performance rights?
> > Thanks,
> > kc
> >
> > Kim Crowley, Director
> > Flathead County Library phone: 406.758.5826
> > 247 First Avenue East fax: 406.758.5868
> > Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
> > kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Videolib mailing list
> > Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> >
> <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>
>
>
>Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE
>
>Jessica Rosner
>Kino International
>333 W 39th St. 503
>NY NY 10018
>jrosner@kino.com
>212-629-6880
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Videolib mailing list
>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
><http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

****

"Movies are poems, a holy bible, the great mother of us."
--Ted Berrigan
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I am completely sympathetic toward the concept of going to the fair use battlements in support of educational mission.   Pushing envelopes is good!  However:  in this case, I don't think the envelop is all that pushable.  Just because an extracurricular group operates under the auspices of an educational institution, or just because a work is screened ("performed/displayed") in a campus venue doesn't qualify the use as fair.   In this case, I it seems to me that the use treads on one of the four tests of fair use, i.e. The effect on marketability.  I ain't a lawyer, certainly, and I ain't a flack for the producers/distributors (certainly!), but I do think it's as much our obligation to respect the intellectual property rights of producers as it is to go to the mat for our clients.

Gary Handman

At 09:17 AM 9/21/2005 -0400, you wrote:

Let's look at the other side of this for a minute. Because we follow the guidelines very closely at Middlebury, the Hispanic Alliance on our campus will probably not be screening two Spanish-language movies for their group this month. The public performance fee was close to a thousand dollars for the two and the club doesn't have that much in their budget. It doesn't require too much imagination to see this as somewhat of an impediment to learning. Sure, they can see the film if it's a part of the Spanish 101 curriculum, but they can't see it as a group unless they are able to shell out $1,000 for the privilege. Public performance prices for these sorts of programs are way too high. We expect to pay those prices for College-wide entertainment-related film series but shouldn't have to strain our budgets to offer realistic enrichment programs to language groups. We are being fair to the distributors, but are we being entirely fair to our students? Do we have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of more realistic "fair use"?

Patty
____________________= _____________
Patricia= Hornbeck
Media Resources= Development Coordinator
Middlebury= College
Library and= Information Services/#212
Middlebury, VT= 05753

(802)443-2268= phone
(802)443-5698= fax
Email:= hornbeck@middlebury.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Crowley [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On= Behalf Of Kim Crowley
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2005 6:35 PM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Thank you, Jessica.  I did go the vidoelib archives when I had time= and found reference to the article that is on the webpage of Library Video= company.  http://www.libra= ryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp  I will send this on to my= colleague at the community college. 
kc
 
Kim Crowley, Director
Flathead County Library   phone: 406.758.5826
247 First Avenue East     fax:  = 406.758.5868
Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu on behalf of Jessica= Rosner
Sent: Tue 9/20/2005 2:28 PM
To: videolib
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Videolib] another fair use question

The law happens to very clear on this one. She can show the films to a= CLASS
of students ENROLLED in THAT  class as part of the class= instruction
She can NOT show it to a student "group" or "club"= only to students who are
in her specific class.
There is no such thing as an "educational" exemption. Only a= VERY specific
"face to face" teaching exemption. FYI this has NOTHING to do= with "fair
use" but with the above mentioned "face to face"

I am bit tired but I am sure Gary or someone else can post the link or= text
for this in the copyright code


> Hi all,
>
> We have a community college here with a multicultural and global= issues
> program.  The person in charge of this program teaches classes= and also does
> some community events.  She was under the impression (backed= up by the media
> center, which is not the library) that since she is in a teaching= environment
> and these films are to further the education of the students, that= she does
> not have to have any special rights for films like= "Crash" and "Maria Full of
> Grace."  These are films that she would like to show her= student group, call
> "Global Friends".  I called her when I saw= "Crash" advertised in an email
> newsletter and she has since pulled that film and substituted= "Invisible
> Children" for which she has permission.  But she is still= under the impression
> that she can show "Crash" at a later date to the student= club without
> performance rights (and if they happen to bring their friends, that= is okay).
>
> Can she show these films in the classroom without performance= rights?  Can she
> show them to the Global Club and friends without performance= rights?
> Thanks,
> kc
>
> Kim Crowley, Director
> Flathead County Library   phone: 406.758.5826
> 247 First Avenue East     fax:  = 406.758.5868
> Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
> kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Videolib mailing list
> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.l= ib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib



Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE

Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880


_______________________________________________
Videolib mailing list
Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.l= ib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

****

"Movies are poems, a holy bible, the great mother of us."
            &nbs= p;  --Ted Berrigan

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