RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Griest, Bryan (BGriest@ci.glendale.ca.us)
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:54:03 -0700

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"Do we have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of
more realistic "fair use"?"

Of course we do. Before Jessica reins us all in with a patented "This is the
law; why are we even talking about this again?", let's agree that pushing
this particular envelope is against the law. That being said, is ignoring a
PPR payment an act of civil disobedience or simply illegal behavior with no
moral/ethical component whatsoever? I know where the content providers
stand--they want as much money as they can get. What can we do? Stop buying
their wares, alert our patrons as to why we did so, alert legislators to
this practice so as to change the law, etc. Would this be effective? It
hasn't been so far, but perhaps the political climate is on the verge of
changing back to where education, no matter where or how it is obtained, is
actually encouraged by our governments. (I know, it is a dream of mine.)
Maybe if that actually happens, we can work to effect legislative change in
the copyright laws in the name of said education. Content providers can't
continue winning forever, can they?
Bryan Griest
Glendale Public Library
-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of Hornbeck, Patty
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:18 AM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Let's look at the other side of this for a minute. Because we follow the
guidelines very closely at Middlebury, the Hispanic Alliance on our campus
will probably not be screening two Spanish-language movies for their group
this month. The public performance fee was close to a thousand dollars for
the two and the club doesn't have that much in their budget. It doesn't
require too much imagination to see this as somewhat of an impediment to
learning. Sure, they can see the film if it's a part of the Spanish 101
curriculum, but they can't see it as a group unless they are able to shell
out $1,000 for the privilege. Public performance prices for these sorts of
programs are way too high. We expect to pay those prices for College-wide
entertainment-related film series but shouldn't have to strain our budgets
to offer realistic enrichment programs to language groups. We are being fair
to the distributors, but are we being entirely fair to our students? Do we
have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of more
realistic "fair use"?
Patty
_________________________________
Patricia Hornbeck
Media Resources Development Coordinator
Middlebury College
Library and Information Services/#212
Middlebury, VT 05753

(802)443-2268 phone
(802)443-5698 fax
Email: hornbeck@middlebury.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Crowley [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of
Kim Crowley
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2005 6:35 PM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Thank you, Jessica. I did go the vidoelib archives when I had time and
found reference to the article that is on the webpage of Library Video
company. http://www.libraryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp
<http://www.libraryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp> I will send this on to
my colleague at the community college.
kc

Kim Crowley, Director
Flathead County Library phone: 406.758.5826
247 First Avenue East fax: 406.758.5868
Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us <mailto:kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us>

-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu on behalf of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Tue 9/20/2005 2:28 PM
To: videolib
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Videolib] another fair use question

The law happens to very clear on this one. She can show the films to a CLASS
of students ENROLLED in THAT class as part of the class instruction
She can NOT show it to a student "group" or "club" only to students who are
in her specific class.
There is no such thing as an "educational" exemption. Only a VERY specific
"face to face" teaching exemption. FYI this has NOTHING to do with "fair
use" but with the above mentioned "face to face"

I am bit tired but I am sure Gary or someone else can post the link or text
for this in the copyright code

> Hi all,
>
> We have a community college here with a multicultural and global issues
> program. The person in charge of this program teaches classes and also
does
> some community events. She was under the impression (backed up by the
media
> center, which is not the library) that since she is in a teaching
environment
> and these films are to further the education of the students, that she
does
> not have to have any special rights for films like "Crash" and "Maria Full
of
> Grace." These are films that she would like to show her student group,
call
> "Global Friends". I called her when I saw "Crash" advertised in an email
> newsletter and she has since pulled that film and substituted "Invisible
> Children" for which she has permission. But she is still under the
impression
> that she can show "Crash" at a later date to the student club without
> performance rights (and if they happen to bring their friends, that is
okay).
>
> Can she show these films in the classroom without performance rights? Can
she
> show them to the Global Club and friends without performance rights?
> Thanks,
> kc
>
> Kim Crowley, Director
> Flathead County Library phone: 406.758.5826
> 247 First Avenue East fax: 406.758.5868
> Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
> kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Videolib mailing list
> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
<http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib>

Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE

Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880

_______________________________________________
Videolib mailing list
Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
<http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib>

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Re: [Videolib] another fair use question

"Do we have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of more realistic "fair use"?"
 
Of course we do. Before Jessica reins us all in with a patented "This is the law; why are we even talking about this again?", let's agree that pushing this particular envelope is against the law. That being said, is ignoring a PPR payment an act of civil disobedience or simply illegal behavior with no moral/ethical component whatsoever? I know where the content providers stand--they want as much money as they can get. What can we do? Stop buying their wares, alert our patrons as to why we did so, alert legislators to this practice so as to change the law, etc. Would this be effective? It hasn't been so far, but perhaps the political climate is on the verge of changing back to where education, no matter where or how it is obtained, is actually encouraged by our governments. (I know, it is a dream of mine.) Maybe if that actually happens, we can work to effect legislative change in the copyright laws in the name of said education. Content providers can't continue winning forever, can they?
Bryan Griest
Glendale Public Library
-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of Hornbeck, Patty
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:18 AM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Let's look at the other side of this for a minute. Because we follow the guidelines very closely at Middlebury, the Hispanic Alliance on our campus will probably not be screening two Spanish-language movies for their group this month. The public performance fee was close to a thousand dollars for the two and the club doesn't have that much in their budget. It doesn't require too much imagination to see this as somewhat of an impediment to learning. Sure, they can see the film if it's a part of the Spanish 101 curriculum, but they can't see it as a group unless they are able to shell out $1,000 for the privilege. Public performance prices for these sorts of programs are way too high. We expect to pay those prices for College-wide entertainment-related film series but shouldn't have to strain our budgets to offer realistic enrichment programs to language groups. We are being fair to the distributors, but are we being entirely fair to our students? Do we have a responsibility as educators to push the envelope in favor of more realistic "fair use"?

Patty
_________________________________
Patricia Hornbeck
Media Resources Development Coordinator
Middlebury College
Library and Information Services/#212
Middlebury, VT 05753

(802)443-2268 phone
(802)443-5698 fax
Email: hornbeck@middlebury.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Crowley [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of Kim Crowley
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2005 6:35 PM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Videolib] another fair use question

Thank you, Jessica.  I did go the vidoelib archives when I had time and found reference to the article that is on the webpage of Library Video company.  http://www.libraryvideo.com/articles/article7.asp  I will send this on to my colleague at the community college. 
kc
 
Kim Crowley, Director
Flathead County Library   phone: 406.758.5826
247 First Avenue East     fax:   406.758.5868
Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us
-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu on behalf of Jessica Rosner
Sent: Tue 9/20/2005 2:28 PM
To: videolib
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Videolib] another fair use question

The law happens to very clear on this one. She can show the films to a CLASS
of students ENROLLED in THAT  class as part of the class instruction
She can NOT show it to a student "group" or "club" only to students who are
in her specific class.
There is no such thing as an "educational" exemption. Only a VERY specific
"face to face" teaching exemption. FYI this has NOTHING to do with "fair
use" but with the above mentioned "face to face"

I am bit tired but I am sure Gary or someone else can post the link or text
for this in the copyright code


> Hi all,

> We have a community college here with a multicultural and global issues
> program.  The person in charge of this program teaches classes and also does
> some community events.  She was under the impression (backed up by the media
> center, which is not the library) that since she is in a teaching environment
> and these films are to further the education of the students, that she does
> not have to have any special rights for films like "Crash" and "Maria Full of
> Grace."  These are films that she would like to show her student group, call
> "Global Friends".  I called her when I saw "Crash" advertised in an email
> newsletter and she has since pulled that film and substituted "Invisible
> Children" for which she has permission.  But she is still under the impression
> that she can show "Crash" at a later date to the student club without
> performance rights (and if they happen to bring their friends, that is okay).

> Can she show these films in the classroom without performance rights?  Can she
> show them to the Global Club and friends without performance rights?
> Thanks,
> kc

> Kim Crowley, Director
> Flathead County Library   phone: 406.758.5826
> 247 First Avenue East     fax:   406.758.5868
> Kalispell, MT. 59901-4598
> kcrowley@co.flathead.mt.us

>
> _______________________________________________
> Videolib mailing list
> Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib



Proud Resident of a BLUE STATE

Jessica Rosner
Kino International
333 W 39th St. 503
NY NY 10018
jrosner@kino.com
212-629-6880


_______________________________________________
Videolib mailing list
Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib

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