RE: [Videolib] Archival copy of DVD

Scott Lehman (scottl@evpl.org)
Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:49:27 -0500

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Just for fun, I'll play the devil's advocate here... why don't librarians
(and the ALA) have these same thoughts about the Patriot Act, Homeland
Security, rulings on Internet Filtering... ?

It seems that librarians (and again, the ALA) like to pick and choose which
laws they deem to be "wrong." I won't get into where I stand on these
issues, I just thought it was worth noting, considering the Ashcroft - NYT
article that was posted earlier. I've seen plenty of librarians scampering
to adjust their circulation software as to not have any patron or item
histories in the computer, just to "circumvent" these new laws that "we"
don't agree with.

I think I can already predict what most of the responses will be. Remember,
I'm just being the devil's advocate here.

Back into "realism" mode... Even if we could make "archival copies," who
would have the time to do it? Might as well just replace the broken Disney
DVD or that scratched-up Snoop Dogg CD for the sixth time. Or get a disc
scratch-repair machine -- that has saved us a bundle in replacement costs.

Scott Lehman
Evansville Vanderburgh Public Library

At 12:56 PM 9/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm not a lawyer, Jed, thank god...but I have been in the business of
>media librarianship for over 20 years and I have worked closely with
>lawyers on both sides of the fair use fence for easily that long. I
>appreciate your "information wants to be free stance", and as an educator
>myself, I push whenever possible on the side of fair use.
>There is NO debate here, however. Making derivatives of copyrighted works
>is the exclusive right of the copyright holder under Title
>117....period. While copying of physically at-risk works which are no
>longer available on the commercial market may be permissible (or works in
>obsolete media that are no longer playable), copying an entire DVD would
>in no way be allowable under current law.
>
>yeah...it'd be cool if the american library assn went to the battlements
>in favor of broader access (Librarians did participate in CONFU and in the
>formation of the Fair Use Guidelines for Multimedia...battles which we
>lost, in my view). It's unlike that ALA or other professional groups will
>be frying this particular fish any time soon...
>
>There are many subscribers to this list who are new to the field of media
>librarian, or who are attempting to learn the ropes. I think you're
>confusing already complex issues with your idealism. The fact is, it's
>professionally incumbent on librarians (and everyone else, for that
>matter) to play within the strictures of the law (not liking them doesn't
>mean you can ignore them or interpret them to suit your own
>purposes)... Laws that are as fuzzy as copyright are extremely difficult
>to negotiate, and because most of us work in public institutions and in
>the public eye, I think it's always best to play it slow and easy... The
>groups you cite below are advocacy groups that are interesting, but are
>unlikely to prove too much use to any of us in the trenches if called into
>court on an infringement suit.
>
>Gary
>
>At 02:47 PM 9/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>Gary,
>>I really don't want to start an old debate up again but are you a
>>lawyer? Is it that clear? I don't think so. Check out
>><http://www.eff.org>http://www.eff.org and
>><http://www.digitalconsumer.org>http://www.digitalconsumer.org and
>><http://www.321studios.com>http://www.321studios.com. They don't agree
>>with your position.
>>
>>I simply ask if you are right, why don't libraries lobby to change the law.
>>Jed Horovitz
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu
>>[mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of Gary Handman
>>Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 2:22 PM
>>To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>Subject: Re: [Videolib] Archival copy of DVD
>>
>>Absolutely categorically indubitably and without question a patent
>>infringement of copyright.
>>Do not do it!
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 01:36 PM 9/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>>A trustee asked if a public library could make copies of DVDs to circulate.
>>>The original copy would not circulate, but be kept as an archival copy if
>>>slapdash use causes damage to the circulating copy. This question was
>>>prompted by concern about the short life expectancy of DVDs circulating to
>>>the masses. Does anyone do this? Is it a copyright violation? My initial
>>>response was it is a copyright violation, but I know back in the LP days,
>>>libraries made tape copies to circulate. Thanks for any advice.
>>>Ellen J. Reynolds ereynolds@pls-net.org
>>>Collection Management Librarian
>>>Pioneer Library System www.pls-net.org
>>>4595 Rt. 21 N. 585-394-8260 (V)
>>>Canandaigua, NY 14424 585-394-1935 (FAX)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Videolib mailing list
>>>Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
>>>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
>>Gary Handman
>>Director
>>Media Resources Center
>>Moffitt Library
>>UC Berkeley
>>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>
>>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
>> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
>> spectacles."
>> --Guy Debord
>
>Gary Handman
>Director
>Media Resources Center
>Moffitt Library
>UC Berkeley
>ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
>"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
> all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of
> spectacles."
> --Guy Debord

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Just for fun, I'll play the devil's advocate here... why don't librarians (and the ALA) have these same thoughts about the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, rulings on Internet Filtering... ?

It seems that librarians (and again, the ALA) like to pick and choose which laws they deem to be "wrong." I won't get into where I stand on these issues, I just thought it was worth noting, considering the Ashcroft - NYT article that was posted earlier. I've seen plenty of librarians scampering to adjust their circulation software as to not have any patron or item histories in the computer, just to "circumvent" these new laws that "we" don't agree with.

I think I can already predict what most of the responses will be. Remember, I'm just being the devil's advocate here.

Back into "realism" mode... Even if we could make "archival copies," who would have the time to do it? Might as well just replace the broken Disney DVD or that scratched-up Snoop Dogg CD for the sixth time. Or get a disc scratch-repair machine -- that has saved us a bundle in replacement costs.

Scott Lehman
Evansville Vanderburgh Public Library

At 12:56 PM 9/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, Jed, thank god...but I have been in the business of media librarianship for over  20 years and I have worked closely with lawyers on both sides of the fair use fence for easily that long.  I appreciate your "information wants to be free stance", and as an educator myself, I push whenever possible on the side of fair use.
There is NO debate here, however.  Making derivatives of copyrighted works is the exclusive right of the copyright holder under Title 117....period.   While copying of physically at-risk works which are no longer available on the commercial market may be permissible (or works in obsolete media that are no longer playable), copying an entire DVD would in no way be allowable under current law.

yeah...it'd be cool if the american library assn went to the battlements in favor of broader access (Librarians did participate in CONFU and in the formation of the Fair Use Guidelines for Multimedia...battles which we lost, in my view).  It's unlike that ALA or other professional groups will be frying this particular fish any time soon...

There are many subscribers to this list who are new to the field of media librarian, or who are attempting to learn the ropes.  I think you're confusing already complex issues with your idealism.  The fact is, it's professionally incumbent on librarians (and everyone else, for that matter) to play within the strictures of the law (not liking them doesn't mean you can ignore them or interpret them to suit your own purposes)...  Laws that are as fuzzy as copyright are extremely difficult to negotiate, and because most of us work in public institutions and in the public eye,  I think it's always best to play it slow and easy...  The groups you cite below are advocacy groups that are interesting, but are unlikely to prove too much use to any of us in the trenches if called into court on an infringement suit.

Gary

At 02:47 PM 9/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Gary,
I really don't want to start an old debate up again but are you a lawyer?  Is it that clear?  I don't think so.  Check out http://www.eff.org and http://www.digitalconsumer.org and http://www.321studios.com.  They don't agree with your position.
 
I simply ask if you are right, why don't libraries lobby to change the law.
Jed Horovitz
-----Original Message-----
From: videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-bounces@library.berkeley.edu]On Behalf Of Gary Handman
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 2:22 PM
To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] Archival copy of DVD

Absolutely categorically indubitably and without question a patent infringement of copyright. 
Do not do it!

Gary





At 01:36 PM 9/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
A trustee asked if a public library could make copies of DVDs to circulate.
The original copy would not circulate, but be kept as an archival copy if
slapdash use causes damage to the circulating copy.  This question was
prompted by concern about the short life expectancy of DVDs circulating to
the masses.  Does anyone do this?  Is it a copyright violation?  My initial
response was it is a copyright violation, but I know back in the LP days,
libraries made tape copies to circulate.  Thanks for any advice.
Ellen J. Reynolds                   ereynolds@pls-net.org
Collection Management Librarian
Pioneer Library System          www.pls-net.org
4595 Rt. 21 N.                    585-394-8260 (V)
Canandaigua, NY 14424        585-394-1935 (FAX)





_______________________________________________
Videolib mailing list
Videolib@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/videolib
Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
           all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
               --Guy Debord

Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley
ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"In societies where modern conditions of production prevail,
           all of life presents itself as an immense accumulation of spectacles."
               --Guy Debord

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