Re: another copyright question

Mark W. Kopp (iu8film@iu08.org)
Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:50:25 -0800 (PST)

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I agree, partly, in what you are saying, but the original question was
assignments utilizing video clips in a media arts project. I was thinking
that this use was "lurking" around the section of the Copyright Act that
discusses the copyright owner's "purpose" in that a Science Video is shown
for a science class, but may fall out of "fair use" when the content is
copied and displayed for it's artistic content.

Again, as it seems with all "fair use" issues, judgement should be held in
a case-by-case circumstance and the "grey area" here is how it is being
used. It is not being used for "instructional" purposes but it is educational.

If anyone following this is a member of AIME, and has access to the "ears"
of one of their Copyright lawyers, they could possibly run it by them.
******************************************************
At 09:21 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I am going to beg to differ. I believe all media is the same weather it
>is a monograph, a movie, a map, or whatever. If in the course of
>educational purposes it is necessary to "quote" from a media source, it is
>fine as long as the source is identified and and it is brief. What you
>say puts all theses and disssertations in a legal quandry. If I can quote
>from Dr. So and So's book on page 97, I can insert into a research project
>a clip from a film by what's-her-name that proves or disproves my
>point. It is the same, as long as I give credit where credit is due and
>it is for educational purposes.
>John
>
>John H. Streepy
>Media Assistant III
>Library-Media Circulation
>Central Washington University Library
>400 E. 8th AVE
>Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>
>(509) 963-2861
>http://www.lib.cwu.edu/media
>
> >>> iu8film@iu08.org 11/18/02 09:04AM >>>
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>
>It is illegal because they are going to copy it and put their names on it
>at the end. They may refer to it in text, but the actual copy requires
>permission, as in "Used by Permission", etc. Each and every clip must have
>separate permissions from each copyright owner, and the source you used to
>purchase the title may not even have the permission to give you permission.
>Each student would need the permissions for his or her project, unless a
>blanket permission is negotiated. Remember, they are not just referring to
>a title or content, they are actually copying portions of a copyrighted work.
>
>Since that material is no longer being used in a mediated face-to-face
>classroom setting, it also is no longer covered by "Fair Usage", either.
>
>The "profs" will, most likely, balk at that. Your response to them is that
>if they order a student to make an illegal copy of a title, they are
>complicit in that crime as if they had made the copy themselves.
>
>**********************************************
>At 08:17 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
> >copy bits of them for media arts projects.
> >
> >Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
> >LeeAnne
> >
> >
> >LeeAnne L. Krause
> >Manager, Educational Films
> >USC Film Library
> >803-777-0322
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
> >Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >
> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> >I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
> >copy bits of them for media arts projects.
> >
> >Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
> >LeeAnne
> >
> >
> >LeeAnne L. Krause
> >Manager, Educational Films
> >USC Film Library
> >803-777-0322
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8--
>
>****************************************************************************
>Mark W. Kopp
>Circulation Coordinator
>Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
>Instructional Materials Services Department
>580 Foot of Ten Road
>Duncansville, Pa 16635
>(814) 695-1972 Phone
>(814) 695-3018 Fax
>E-Address:
>mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
>See us on the Web at:
><http://www.iu08.org>http://www.iu08.org
>Click on; "Instructional Materials Services"
>
>
>
>--=====================_14395908==.ALT
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>
>It is illegal because they are going to copy it and put their names on it
>at the end. They may refer to it in text, but the actual copy requires
>permission, as in "Used by Permission", etc. Each and every clip must have
>separate permissions from each copyright owner, and the source you used to
>purchase the title may not even have the permission to give you
>permission. Each student would need the permissions for his or her
>project, unless a blanket permission is negotiated. Remember, they are not
>just referring to a title or content, they are actually copying portions
>of a copyrighted work.
>
>Since that material is no longer being used in a mediated face-to-face
>classroom setting, it also is no longer covered by "Fair Usage", either.
>
>The "profs" will, most likely, balk at that. Your response to them is that
>if they order a student to make an illegal copy of a title, they are
>complicit in that crime as if they had made the copy themselves.
>
>**********************************************
>At 08:17 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
>>copy bits of them for media arts projects.
>>
>>Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
>>LeeAnne
>>
>>
>>LeeAnne L. Krause
>>Manager, Educational Films
>>USC Film Library
>>803-777-0322
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
>>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
>>copy bits of them for media arts projects.
>>
>>Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
>>LeeAnne
>>
>>
>>LeeAnne L. Krause
>>Manager, Educational Films
>>USC Film Library
>>803-777-0322
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8--
>
>****************************************************************************
>Mark W. Kopp
>Circulation Coordinator
>Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
>Instructional Materials Services Department
>580 Foot of Ten Road
>Duncansville, Pa 16635
>(814) 695-1972 Phone
>(814) 695-3018 Fax
>E-Address:
>mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
>See us on the Web at:
><http://www.iu08.org>http://www.iu08.org
>Click on; "Instructional Materials Services"
>
>
>
>--=====================_14395908==.ALT--

****************************************************************************
Mark W. Kopp
Circulation Coordinator
Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
Instructional Materials Services Department
580 Foot of Ten Road
Duncansville, Pa 16635
(814) 695-1972 Phone
(814) 695-3018 Fax
E-Address:
mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
See us on the Web at:
<http://www.iu08.org>http://www.iu08.org
Click on; "Instructional Materials Services"

--=====================_23979588==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

I agree, partly, in what you are saying, but the original question was assignments utilizing video clips in a media arts project. I was thinking that this use was "lurking" around the section of the Copyright Act that discusses the copyright owner's "purpose" in that a Science Video is shown for a science class, but may fall out of "fair use" when the content is copied and displayed for it's artistic content.

Again, as it seems with all "fair use" issues, judgement should be held in a case-by-case circumstance and the "grey area" here is how it is being used. It is not being used for "instructional" purposes but it is educational.

If anyone following this is a member of AIME, and has access to the "ears" of one of their Copyright lawyers, they could possibly run it by them.
******************************************************
At 09:21 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

I am going to beg to differ.  I believe all media is the same weather it is a monograph, a movie, a map, or whatever.  If in the course of educational purposes it is necessary to "quote" from a media source, it is fine as long as the source is identified and and it is brief.  What you say puts all theses and disssertations in a legal quandry.  If I can quote from Dr. So and So's book on page 97, I can insert into a research project a clip from a film by what's-her-name that proves or disproves my point.  It is the same, as long as I give credit where credit is due and it is for educational purposes.
John

John H. Streepy
Media Assistant III
Library-Media Circulation
Central Washington University Library
400 E. 8th AVE
Ellensburg, WA  98926-7548

(509) 963-2861
http://www.lib.cwu.edu/media

>>> iu8film@iu08.org 11/18/02 09:04AM >>>
--=====================_14395908==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

It is illegal because they are going to copy it and put their names on it
at the end. They may refer to it in text, but the actual copy requires
permission, as in "Used by Permission", etc. Each and every clip must have
separate permissions from each copyright owner, and the source you used to
purchase the title may not even have the permission to give you permission.
Each student would need the permissions for his or her project, unless a
blanket permission is negotiated. Remember, they are not just referring to
a title or content, they are actually copying portions of a copyrighted work.

Since that material is no longer being used in a mediated face-to-face
classroom setting, it also is no longer covered by "Fair Usage", either.

The "profs" will, most likely, balk at that. Your response to them is that
if they order a student to make an illegal copy of a title, they are
complicit in that crime as if they had made the copy themselves.

**********************************************
At 08:17 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
>copy bits of them for media arts projects.
>
>Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
>LeeAnne
>
>
>LeeAnne L. Krause
>Manager, Educational Films
>USC Film Library
>803-777-0322
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
>copy bits of them for media arts projects.
>
>Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
>LeeAnne
>
>
>LeeAnne L. Krause
>Manager, Educational Films
>USC Film Library
>803-777-0322
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8--

****************************************************************************
Mark W. Kopp
Circulation Coordinator
Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
Instructional Materials Services Department
580 Foot of Ten Road
Duncansville, Pa  16635
(814) 695-1972 Phone
(814) 695-3018 Fax
E-Address:
mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
See us on the Web at:
<http://www.iu08.org>http://www.iu08.org
Click on;   "Instructional Materials Services"



--=====================_14395908==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

It is illegal because they are going to copy it and put their names on it at the end. They may refer to it in text, but the actual copy requires permission, as in "Used by Permission", etc. Each and every clip must have separate permissions from each copyright owner, and the source you used to purchase the title may not even have the permission to give you permission. Each student would need the permissions for his or her project, unless a blanket permission is negotiated. Remember, they are not just referring to a title or content, they are actually copying portions of a copyrighted work.

Since that material is no longer being used in a mediated face-to-face classroom setting, it also is no longer covered by "Fair Usage", either.

The "profs" will, most likely, balk at that. Your response to them is that if they order a student to make an illegal copy of a title, they are complicit in that crime as if they had made the copy themselves.

**********************************************
At 08:17 AM 11/18/02 -0800, you wrote:
--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and
copy bits of them for media arts projects. 
 
Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
LeeAnne
 
 
LeeAnne L. Krause
Manager, Educational Films
USC Film Library
803-777-0322
 
 
 

 

--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
I got some profs here who want their students to check out our films and copy bits of them for media arts projects. 
 
Oh, wise copyright gurus, tell me why this is as illegal as I suspect.
LeeAnne
 
 
LeeAnne L. Krause
Manager, Educational Films
USC Film Library
803-777-0322

 
 
 

 

--=_D08C394E.F495FEE8--

****************************************************************************
Mark W. Kopp
Circulation Coordinator
Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
Instructional Materials Services Department
580 Foot of Ten Road
Duncansville, Pa  16635
(814) 695-1972 Phone
(814) 695-3018 Fax
E-Address:
mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
See us on the Web at:
http://www.iu08.org
Click on;   "Instructional Materials Services"



--=====================_14395908==.ALT--

****************************************************************************
Mark W. Kopp
Circulation Coordinator
Appalachia Intermediate Unit 8
Instructional Materials Services Department
580 Foot of Ten Road
Duncansville, Pa  16635
(814) 695-1972 Phone
(814) 695-3018 Fax
E-Address:
mail to:iu8film@iu08.org
See us on the Web at:
http://www.iu08.org
Click on;   "Instructional Materials Services"


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