RE: Copyright

Hornbeck, Patty (hornbeck@middlebury.edu)
Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:54:29 -0700 (PDT)

Gary,

If you are making a case for copying 16mm that has gone out of
distribution, please try to restate your reasons so that they are clear.
Even with lipreading, I don't understand three out of four of your
statements below...

Patty Hornbeck
_________________________________
Patricia Hornbeck
Middlebury College
Sunderland Language Center
Middlebury, VT 05753

(802)443-2268 phone
(802)443-2075 fax
Email: Hornbeck@middlebury.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Handman [SMTP:ghandman@library.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 2:18 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: Copyright
>
> Read my lips, Jessica: 16 mm is a projected, programmed medium
> exclusively. The format has very little to do with collection building or
>
> with classroom use, for that matter. A title legally purchased in 16mm
> that goes out of distribution is up for copying, in my book... Rental has
>
> nothing to do with nothing...
>
> gary
>
>
> At 09:30 AM 10/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> >Yes I would disagree. How in the WORLD could you justify making a VHS
> from a
> >DVD? Also 16mm IS NOT DEAD , just very inconvenient under present
> >circumstances. I also would not want to be the party crossing the
> >"fair Market " issue?. It was my understanding that section 108
> >applied to RECORDINGS not film . In any event I will try to get
> >a friend of mine who really is an expert on this to post ( and he works
> for
> >an archive not a studio)
> >
> >I suppose it is because I think again in "feature film" terms rather
> >than Educational films that I seem so nasty but I can't see ANY
> >circumstances where a rights holder would allow you to transfer a 16mm
> >FEATURE film to VHS, just because they have CHOSEN not to release it on
> >video or DVD. I seriously doubt you would have a chance in court on this.
> >As for the educational stuff that may really be "lost" re distribution, I
> am
> >not sure.
> >
> >FYI the reason I mentioned doing a dilegent search is that the original
> post
> >indicated that if a format were presumed "dead" they could transfer it
> >WITHOUT making a search
> >--
> >Jessica Rosner
> >Kino International
> >333 W 39th St. 503
> >NY NY 10018
> >jrosner@kino.com
> >
> > > From: Gary Handman <ghandman@library.berkeley.edu>
> > > Reply-To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> > > Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Copyright
> > >
> > > OK...
> > >
> > > Ten aftern nine am and I'm weighing in. I think you may be
> obfuscating
> > > things, Jessica.
> > >
> > > If a library has made a reasonable (well-documented) effort to acquire
> a
> > > replacement of a title that it has legally acquired
> > > AND
> > > if it has been determined after such a search that the material is not
> > > available at fair market price
> > > THEN
> > > I firmly believe it is reasonable (and within the strictures of
> current
> > > copyright) to make a replacement copy. I also think that in such
> > > circumstances making a video copy from a 16mm print or a DVD from a
> video
> > > copy would hold up in court under the current terms of Section 108 of
> the
> > > copyright law.
> > >
> > > Anyone disagree?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:03 AM 10/21/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> > >> Ah so early on Monday
> > >> Becky
> > >> I think there is a key confusion here. You can NEVER transfer WITHOUT
> > >> FIRST trying to track down and get permission. You must ALWAYS make
> > >> a diligent effort to track the rights holder first. There is NO right
> > >> to transfer from an obsolete format just because you want to or it is
> more
> > >> convenient. If for instance you had an old 16mm print of SONG OF THE
> SOUTH
> > >> you know who would sue you ASAP if you tried to transfer it just
> because
> > >> they have DELIBERATLY chosen not to release it and they own it
> > >>
> > >> In any case 16mm , IT IS NOT DEAD YET and we still make new prints
> and
> > rent
> > >> our collection widely. I expect it will be MANY years before this
> would be
> > >> a "dead" format.
> > >>
> > >> I realize that a lot of old educational titles are very hard to find
> > >> or track down and my area is pretty much feature films ( which is why
> > >> I freak out when someone mentions transferring them) but be VERY,
> VERY
> > >> careful about what constitutes a diligent effort to track the rights
> > >> and an obsolete format
> > >>
> > >> Jessica
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Jessica Rosner
> > >> Kino International
> > >> 333 W 39th St. 503
> > >> NY NY 10018
> > >> jrosner@kino.com
> > >>
> > >>> From: Becky Carolus <rjc@psulias.psu.edu>
> > >>> Reply-To: videolib@library.berkeley.edu
> > >>> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list <videolib@library.berkeley.edu>
> > >>> Subject: Copyright
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --Boundary_(ID_yVHvyRQq5sBePtEbRwBkXw)
> > >>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> > >>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > >>>
> > >>> Okay, I'm in need of some clarification here. Penn State also holds
> a
> > >>> large number of titles that are forever out of print, but we've been
>
> > under
> > >>> the assumption that we could not transfer these -- 16mm particularly
>
> > -- to
> > >>> VHS or DVD without tracking down and seeking permission from the
> film
> > maker
> > >>> when the original distributor is no longer in business. In
> addition,
> > we've
> > >>> been under the impression that we can't legally transfer from 16mm
> to VHS
> > >>> in these instance since new 16mm equipment is still available for
> > purchase,
> > >>> even though we want to move in the direction of no longer support
> 16mm???
> > >>>
> > >>> 3/4" is cut and dried, but not 16mm.
> > >>>
> > >>> If this isn't the case, it will certainly make our lives much less
> > >>> stressful in the next year or so.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Becky Carolus
> > >>> Administrative Assistant
> > >>> Penn State MediaTech & UCIF
> > >>> 203 Special Services Bldg.
> > >>> 814-863-3101 / 814-863-3107 (fax)
> > >>> rjc@psulias.psu.edu / rjc5@psu.edu
> > >>>
> > >>> --Boundary_(ID_yVHvyRQq5sBePtEbRwBkXw)
> > >>> Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
> > >>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > >>>
> > >>> <html>
> > >>> Okay, I'm in need of some clarification here.&nbsp; Penn State also
> holds
> > >>> a large number of titles that are forever out of print, but we've
> been
> > >>> under the assumption that we could not transfer these -- 16mm
> > >>> particularly -- to VHS or DVD without tracking down and seeking
> > >>> permission from the film maker when the original distributor is no
> longer
> > >>> in business.&nbsp; In addition, we've been under the impression that
> we
> > >>> can't legally transfer from 16mm to VHS in these instance since new
> 16mm
> > >>> equipment is still available for purchase, even though we want to
> move in
> > >>> the direction of no longer support 16mm??? <br><br>
> > >>> 3/4&quot; is cut and dried, but not 16mm.<br><br>
> > >>> If this isn't the case, it will certainly make our lives much less
> > >>> stressful in the next year or so.<br>
> > >>> &nbsp;<br><br>
> > >>> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
> > >>> <font face="Script MT Bold" size=4 color="#0000FF">Becky Carolus<br>
> > >>> </font><font size=2 color="#0000FF">Administrative Assistant<br>
> > >>> Penn State MediaTech &amp; UCIF<br>
> > >>> 203 Special Services Bldg.<br>
> > >>> 814-863-3101 / 814-863-3107 (fax)<br>
> > >>> rjc@psulias.psu.edu / rjc5@psu.edu</font></html>
> > >>>
> > >>> --Boundary_(ID_yVHvyRQq5sBePtEbRwBkXw)--
> > >
> > > Gary Handman
> > > Director
> > > Media Resources Center
> > > Moffitt Library
> > > UC Berkeley
> > > ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> > > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
> > >
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
> ghandman@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC